Does the military wear out more weapons through overcleaning than shooting?

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As someone with Materials Engineering background I can say with certainty you are correct. Going to take a lot more than that to cause cracks. Heck, there are FAR more stresses when firing than with surface scraping.

Considering the army I’ve seen gives its soldiers zero equipment and zero training when it comes to weapons maintenance, yeah I’d say that over cleaning contributes to a lot of wear and tear. Your average private shoots maybe 60 rounds every couple months through his m4, a lot more than that in blanks. Weapons are cleaned for hours with baby wipes and dental picks then thrown back in to the arms room bone dry. Shit we are a active line infantry unit constantly preparing for deployment and we can’t even get broken charging handles fixed let alone equipment like broken peq’s and acogs replaced. The units that have seen a lot of fighting over the last 14 years have a lot of old worn out weapons and equipment, its slowly being replaced though. We have brand new 240L’s but only half our saws work for example, its a uphill battle and rifles don’t last forever, especially in the hands of joe.

When I was in we would clean our weapons at least once a week, regardless if they had been shot or not (not being the case 95% of the time). I saw guys using everything from dental picks to screwdrivers to scrape the minute traces of fouling out of their weapons, as a result completely destroying the finish. My favorite part though was this idea that CLP is the be-all end-all of firearms lubricants. I couldn’t stand the stuff, especially when it came to cleaning with it. I eventually replaced my CLP with Hoppes #9 for cleaning and people were amazed that my rifle was totally clean in half the time it took everyone else :cool:

I also got my ass chewed for carrying a can of WD-40 to the field and spraying down my SAW every night before we went to sleep. Apparently CLP works better, but for some reason mine was literally the only weapon not covered in rust…strange…

Yes! Anyone who is spent time in the military knows that when you get ready to turn in your weapon to the armory the folks in charge require the weapon be clean as a whistle. Often times they have a dickhead working in the cage and it’s not uncommon for them to find one speck of lint and make you clean the weapon all over again.

This is why, and I am not kidding, I made sure to be very best friends with the armorers, admin, and cooks.

Everyone that made fun of them calling them POGs would spend their Friday evenings playing **** **** games doing paperwork, cleaning weapons, or ate like shit in the field. I ate like shit too, but at least I had a lot of shit.

This is the #2 piece of advice I give to new joins in the Marine Corps. Right behind “don’t **** the females”

Good insights but for what it’s worth, CLP is the end all because it does everything adequately and can be found everywhere. Carrying around a fanny pack in Theatre full of patches, picks and eight million types of cleaning compounds and bore cleaners isn’t practical. In a bind, CLP has saved my ass out on the range more than a few times!

Sage advice right there.

The weapons are not personal property, and unfortunately they are treated as such. Yes, there are those who treat their weapons respectfully as the life savers they are. However, there are also those who could care less and take their aggressions (lack of knowledge or stupidity) out on their equipment. The view being that the Government can always buy more.

CLP is far from ideal but it works IF you use it and use enough of it

Keyword IF.

There are far better compounds available to civilians, the only thing I use CLP for is external application for rust prevention.

I wouldn’t even think of carrying cleaning crap in the field… just slip 2000

The semester I had spent with ROTC in college, and the FTX I went through with the M4, I got a dose of the 2 hour cleaning regiment…twice! What a waste of time!

It takes me about 15 minutes to do what it took use two hours to do. I use either CLP, or mostly MPro7 cleaner and a can of powder blaster or carb cleaner. Done! I then lube and rifle is ready for work.

I think part of it comes down to three things:

Bored soldiers are dangerous soldiers. Better keep them busy.

The M4/M16 is so unreliable when it is dirty so clean it spotless for a 300 round round use life. Oh, and don’t lube it as it attracts dust and sand and will make it jam.

Anal armorers.

When we got done scraping (and without using any solvents, which made me damn near have a stroke) all they did for lube was put two squirts of CLP with the bolt half way open.

I had a converstation with the media specialist for the unit (he took the photos and placed them on facebook) on how I do a cleaning and commented on how does my weapon keep working and doesn’t jam? “Lube, and lots of it.”

On my personal weapons, I take my time punching bores. I try to be as delicate as thorough without being harsh to my not inexpensive gear.

That said, I’ve seen people manage to destroy M16s, 870s, Smith pistols, and anything else save for a Glock.

One thing I used to do, and still do, is keep either rod and reel lube or now MxPro in a ziploc bag in my jumpout bag. Not so much now but when I was a young person. Had the Smith 4586 and had this one “sergeant” during inspection come up to me with the most indignant look on his face asking how DARE lube be left on that gun for inspection. Mind you, inspection was after an 8 hour haul and no, he wasn’t a good sergeant. But anyways, all subsequent inspections led me to go to the bathroom and totally wipe down my pistol bone dry.

“Now you’ve got your act together!” then before any call I would stop into a safe convenience store bathroom and lube my gun as slick as I could get it.
Glocks don’t need lube like some guns (but still need some lube). AR15s definitely need lube. I solvent wipe my personal rifle more than I just jam a brush through it.

My guns still work and are fairly accurate. I may use a bush once a year depending on how much I’ve shot.

Honestly the best written lesson about weapon cleaning I learned was from that M16 comic book I read as an 8 year old and one of Patrick Sweeneys books.

YMMV

Same…I run EWL S2000 on my pistol slides and BCG…that shit is legit!

Imhbeo (my humble but experienced opinion) the pepaticious act of cleaning teaches one about the weapon he/she shoots and how to maintain a well functioning weapon. It also helps to develpop the habit of cleaning/inspecting your weapons. The last thing I would want is someone that could/would not be vigalant enough to maintain his tools. Yes I was a career military and proud of it.

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In basic we cleaned them in a parts washer. In eobc we cleaned for three days “the army standard” I just used q tips for three days straight.

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I watched an entire company clean their weapons with bore brushes dipped in diesel fuel and then rolled in desert sand before pulling them through their gun tubes. All to satisfy the shiny barrel standard for weapons turn in. In this case the truck carrying the cleaning supplies never arrived.

Retired 28 years ago. Enlisted in time to do 2 tours in Vietnam. We had a battalion armory. When we went out as detachments we carried our own cleaning gear. In between tours we had been known to thoroughly clean inside and out with soap and water then dried in an oven then oiled/lubed. Never did any of us fail a weapons inspection. Different times different methods. Though I don’t remember being afforded the luxury of using a parts cleaner.

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Going after the bore by plunging a steel sectional cleaning rod in the muzzle over and over will undoubtedly damage the muzzle crown and cause accuracy issues. I learned this from experience.

Clean enough to be operational and lubed enough to be reliable is good enough. Sometimes squeaky clean is not such a good idea.

I don’t clean my own guns the way the army wanted me to clean theirs… but I do run a brush through them once in a while and give them an oil change.