First off I wanted to post this question in the “general” page but I did not have access.
Ok I’ll preface my question with a scolding that my friend got from the instructor at our last pistol training class. See he had the 3.5lbs disconnecter in his Glock and the instructor made it clear that a lighter trigger dose not belong in a carry gun. The instructor is active LEO and claims to testify as an expert witness on a federal level on a somewhat regular bases. He claimed that if you find yourself in court after a defensive shooting that the prosecution will have a field day. He said that he has testified in court where the defendant was accused of having a “hair trigger” and the prosecution built a case around that one point and made the defendant look like a vigilante.
I have a few concerns about this claim but overall I guess it’s possible.
So with that in mind. All of us here that have built our own AR’s for whatever reason, are we setting ourselves up for disaster if, God forbid, we ever use our AR’s in a defensive shooting?
I disagree with that, of course all of the firearms related prosecutions (almost all federal) I have seen are in the very gun friendly state of Alaska.
Particularly with the kind of folks I see posting here, I don’t see a modified gun as a serious problem.
I have not seen AUSA’s or DA’s make any argument about the particulars of a weapon unless that modification was actually illegal or controlled (short barrel, full auto, suppressor etc.)
Others may have had other experiences and you will probably get more detailed replies than this, but there is my opinion based on my experience.
ETA
Dave, certainly not disagreeing with you, just the idea that because you modified your rifle that you would be more open to attack by a prosecutor.
I’m no lawyer and even they sometimes don’t know the law but it has been my understanding that in order for you to go to trial the prosecution would have to believed that you committed a crime. Now having said that if you killed someone in self defense you will be arrested and stand before a judge and a prosecuting attorney if the prosecution is satisfied that you are innocent he will not press charges and you are free to go. I cannot imagine that PA would have inspected what ever weapon you used or let alone even look at it until you are a waiting trial. I might be wrong but I don’t know.
My thought is that if you are charged then it is likely that somewhere along the line you did a big no no. At that point everything comes into play like why did you modify this weapon and so on.
I guess that my thoughts stem from the questions I’ve been asking around here about muzzle devices. If there is any weight to this concern I wonder how a device like a Battle Comp would look in the eye of a PA or jury. “So, MR.X. You installed this device on your weapon so you could get multiple hits on Mr. Dead Dirtbad.”
Maybe I’m a little paranoid but it’s something to figure out ahead of time don’t you think?
Should that instructor’s advice be sound, it’s an outrageous idea that we would be free to defend ourselves, just don’t be overly efficient or proficient. Make sure you appear to be an “ordinary” shmuck who just happened to somehow manage to use the firearm succesfully in self defense.
I don’t think it’s an issue if it’s a justified shooting. The lower is the weapon anyway. How much of it has to be put together by you to be considered home built? The upper, the lower. Is adding an ambi safety building, switching out a stock. Most people in law enforcement wouldn’t know the difference anyway.
As far as the 3.5 trigger connector in the Glock, it’s bad information. My department issued Glock 23 was purchased in 2000 and has well over 16,000 rounds through it and they all came with the 3.5 connector. The Glock 34 and 35 use that trigger from the factory. 3.5 is not pounds anyway it metric, kilograms maybe. When I went through my last Glock armorer course they repeated what has been said by years and said the 3.5 is usually between 4.0 and 4.5 lbs.
This is not legal advice and I am not your lawyer. A couple of thoughts:
1.) You would have to find yourself on the wrong end of a bad shoot to worry about this.
2.) Rules of evidence are extremely broad so something may come in. Anything tending to make a material fact more or less likely, including motive, intent, preparation, etc. However, I don’t think a muzzle comp would come in to impugn your character unless it went to one of the aforementioned ‘MIMIC’ exceptions. (Motive, Intent, Mistake, Identity, Common Fraud/Scheme, among others).
3.) A hair trigger may or may not hurt your case. For example, first degree murder. Intoxication + hair trigger, or mistake + hair trigger and you may have a good defense against intentional homicide (first degree murder). I would argue that a lighter trigger may negate intent, although general malice would still be present for a Murder 2 charge.
Moral of the story? Make sure you shoot to stop a objectively reasonable, proportional threat.
I once owned a paintball gun that had an adjustable electronic trigger. Pretty common today. I could tune it down so low that I could point it straight up to the sky and if need be shake it a tad so that gravity would take over and set the trigger off.
2.5+ lbs. is not “hair trigger” matterial. Your going to have to look to an old school double/set trigger setup to get close to that.
Ironic:
Getting crabbed at because of the desire for a different/custom/perhaps better trigger makes puts you at risk of being a vigilante in the eyes of the court, yet taking a class where they teach firearms, how to use them, and presumably how to be effective and efficent with them isn’t considered training murderers…
Nope not an issue unless you live in a liberal state /locality! Cause if your DA is an anti firearm SOB they will use anything they can to prosecute you! It’s a crap shoot- choose to live in the Liberal world and you take the chance of being screwed by them!:rolleyes:
I think there’s some truth to it, sure.
However, I also think there’s the ability to defend yourself in court. - [if you have to at all]
As pitiful as it is, shouldn’t you be willing to go to jail in exchange to stopping a threat and saving lives? sure of course.
People who carry or choose to act in a defensive role have taken on a huge responsibility.
I think we can get very political about firearms and all, but I feel that it is really your choice if you want that round on target.
For sure the rule can apply, but it also might not.
Can you show me a case where someone was prosecuted for a different/custom gun where they did not do something wrong that made the shooting unjustiifed, or where the shooting took place in a state where an AR is otherwise legal to own and is legally owned by the shooter?
I’ve read about situations where shooters have gotten in trouble for using a certain firearm, but invariably they would have been in trouble if they used a double barrelled shotgun failed to fit the guidelines of the law or legal environment.
In the OP, a LEO instructing a firearms class is the one who said having modded stuff can cause issues.
I found it ironic that having a cop teach someone how to be firearms proficient is a good plan, but modifications to a firearm to help that proficiency can make life uglier than it would already be if it went to court, as said by the LEO who was teaching proficiency.
This is all about situational awareness. It just completely depends on where you live. Where I live now, I have no fear of using a suppressed SBR for home defense. We have no-retreat, Castle Doctrine, and civil immunity from a justified shooting where I live.
Where I used to live in the PRNJ, where you are required to retreat until you can physically retreat no further then start reasoning with and hugging your attacker in hopes of rehabilitating him before you even consider physical violence, I would use the prettiest blue and walnut Winchester 94 Trapper in .45 Colt with the biggest, heaviest lead wadcutter target loads I could find. and I would make sure I attended one or two Cowboy Action shoots a year, just to give the newspapers something to find. And my name would be Rompin’ Roy or some gay innocuous shit like that, not The Terminatin’ Peacemaker Kid.
I doubt if anyone can produce any case law that shows where an otherwise clean shooter was hung just for the kind of weapon he used, but again depending on your locality you might want to at least take it into consideration. And remember what’s ok for me might not be ok for you in the Eastern Megalopolis.
