What is the M4C opinion of this relatively new coating for BCG’s? I know it’s been out for a few years but it seems to be gaining in popularity.
I’ve seen some BCG’s advertised but they are using 9130 alloy for the bolt; did manage to find one, however, that (other than the DLC coating) is mil-spec C158 and HPT/MPI/shot peened yada yada.
???
Depends on what the base is? DLC parts have pros and cons, depending what the base part is.
Say on a mil-spec BCG…8620 carrier and C158 bolt. Don’t know if it was parked underneath though or not. tom12.7 you’re one of the guys I hoped would chime in!
On steels that can be hardened to HRc 55 or higher, it is of little value in this application.
PVC and CVC make for very hard surfaces with superb wear characteristics, it is makes cutting tools last much longer, but the bolt and bolt carrier group just don’t see that kind of wear.
Not sure about on a bolt carrier but seems to have worked well on motorcycle fork tubes. But seems to have been more of a performance fad and it appears cost more to do than TiN coating.
I’ve even seen it done of some one-off bicycle forks (the BlackBox SRAM Racing Development Pike and Boxxers do come in an IonBond DLC’d version), but it’s one where a titanium nitride coating is just as good, and still generally unnecessary (I think the choice to do so on the bicycle side was to have a TiN-like coating, but have their product that is black across the line still look distinctively unlike their biggest competitor, Fox Shox, that uses TiN - hence the big expense on DLC).
Considering that it’s generally preferable to actually retain some petroleum based lubricant in the surface if you’re basically adding soot spewing back from the chamber each cycle, the actual performance gain is going to be quite small (BCG) - other areas it’s just some added bling factor (DLC on the outside of a barrel). I think there is a niche where DLC might make sense for firearms, but AR’s are on where I think I understand why the market hasn’t taken off massively - carry guns that aren’t QPQ (Melonite, Tennifer) friendly and chrome/NP3 isn’t desirable, I totally see an application, but gucci 1911’s are the only area where the price starts to seem logical.
Great knife blade coating, doesn’t come right off like other painted on blacks
I have a BCG that’s been IonBond Diamond-like coated and it is super sweet. I love it. She’s super-slick and it’s a ridiculously durable finish. Clean up is a breeze and it barely shows any wear.
Not that a good standard parkerized milspec BCG won’t cut it, mind you. Is DLC necessary? No, obviously not. Does it have its benefits? Sure does. Have I seen any drawbacks to it? Nope, sure haven’t.
EDIT: It’s a Young Manufacturing National Match, Hard-chrome BCG. Every component that makes up the complete BCG has been DLC.
Is Ionbond (the finish) and DLC the same thing, or is it that Ionbond (the company) also offers a DLC finish?
Ionbond is the company… and it looks like they have several types of DLCs. http://www.ionbond.com/en/
Reason I ask is that a few years back (2009 or 2010) I had a BCG that had an Ionbond finish by Ionbond the company. I didn’t find the finish as slick or smooth as the DLC I just got.
Good question.
Mine came from Wes @ MSTN. I could email him and see if I can get details, if you’d like?
I’m wondering if there are several companies that DLC, with their own different versions (processes and chemicals, etc. may be different) ?
That may be true. I’ve seen a DLC finish that was more of a gray color than what I just got but it had a 9130 bolt, and I wanted the C158.
DLC is hard and makes surface imperfections hard to deal with. When dealing with DLC, the range of finish quality spec’d tends to become narrower. As with hard chrome, a narrower band of ranges is needed, plateau surface finishes are spec’d usually. DLC has more of an affinity to certain materials more than others, DLC likes hard chrome much better than many ss alloys, and others.
To the question on the BCG, many, but not all components could have a potential gain with DLC. The problem is in the fact that they were not ALL made to a spec that would tend to be beneficial for the application.
It apparently took to my Young Mfg. N/M Hard-chrome BCG very well.
I would expect that it would to the hard chrome. I’m not the biggest fan of some of the alterations that Young does differently than mil spec and some others on their NM carriers, that’s another subject though.
Tom, I’ve heard that DLC trends to bond better or more easily to std 4140/4150 barrel steels than the 410/416/R steels. Is this true?
It’s great. It should have electroless Nickel laid down first - maybe 5 to 7 microns then 3 to 5 microns of plasma assisted W DLC.
It reduces friction very well just like Ni Boron but it’s much more durable it seems.
“One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep.”
there’s a serious amount of misinformation going on in this thread.
I have been working with Ionbond for over 10 years. In both a machining capacity as well as firearm coatings.
I dont work FOR them, I have been in Ionbonds shop in Indianapolis frequently for work and various testing over the years.
if you have one near you get in there, they will work with you. beats out any Firearms middleman ANY day.
when i first started using them they would do parts for free so you could find what works best. now its a $200 minimum.
Ionbond is a company that does DLC coatings among many others as well. remember the Diamond Black fad of a few years back? DLC - Tetrabond.
depending on the need there are different applications. each has to be chosen carefully because of how it reacts to the substrate its applied to.
embrittlement is the biggest factor I have found…
PVD, PACVD
On AR 15 Bolts and some pistol barrels I prefer Ionbond 30. its CrN, chrome nitride. looks similar to chromed parts. duller in appearance.
I would like to do some work with Bernex 10 and Bernex 62 but the deposition temp is a problem. the coatings are excellent.
for more accurate info look http://www.ionbond.com/en/coating-services/forming-molding-tools/coating-portfolio/
Since you’ve stated there’s serious misinformation going on here… pls call it out. Because your post didn’t seem to contain any rebuttals, unless I missed something.