Discouraged with 1911

General Firearms Handguns - Semi Auto
1

Hey guys,

I was looking to get a good, duty ready 1911. Several years ago I bought a Colt XSE and liked it, but sold it for another gun. So now I am back to looking for a 1911. However, after doing some research I am a little disappointed at what I am hearing. I am a cop with a family so I don’t have a lot of cash to spend, and from what I am hearing you can’t even touch a “good” 1911 for $1500.

I have always wanted a 1911 because I always heard that they were a great, tough, reliable semi-auto pistol. But all I hear recently is that if you don’t spend $1900-$2500 you don’t really get all that great of a pistol and in some cases you still need to send it off and have a smith look at it. I guess my gripe is, whats the point in having a 1911 if you have to give a left testicle to get it when you can get a Glock, M&P etc, etc, that performs better out of the box for a fraction of the cost.

I own Glocks and other brands of .45’s, but I wanted a good 1911 (that works) to go with them. But I guess unless I win the lottery I won’t be able to get a life staking 1911, so I will pass. Am I wrong on this? Have I been reading the articles on light fighter and other sights wrong? On light fighter they say that a $1500 1911 is a good “platform to start with.” I just feel that if I have to spend $2500 on a 1911 that works “right” is just crazy. Crap, if you put just a few hundered dollars more with that you can get a sub-machine gun that will increase in value time and time again. And are the Colts crap now? Are the old Series 70 Colts still considered a good 1911? Thanks for any information or insight.

2

i feel the same way you do on this. i spent over 1k on a 1911 and i trust my life to my xd more.

3

I pretty much agree with you and I’ve had many 1911’s. I know I’m going to miss something but here is a list of 1911’s I’ve owned.

Auto Ord. Govt size
Colt Govt series 80
Colt Gold Cup 80’s Stainless
Colt Defender
Springfield mil spec x2
Kimber eclipse midsize x2
Kimber compact x2
Colt 1911A1 repoduction
Les Baer Premier II x2

of these only the Gold Cup and the Colt 1911A1 repoduction functioned 100%. The Les Baer’s were fine after a 300-500 round break-in. Most were good enough if you were not going to stake your life on them. I don’t have anything against 1911’s and I’m not looking to start any trouble but to protect my life I have long since gone to HK’s and Sig’s. I’ve also shot the $h!t out of Glock’s but I could never learn to love the trigger and I hate the grip angle. If you really want a 45, I’ve owned two Sig P220 ST’s (all stainless) both were 100% reliable and the weight made them feel like I was shooting a mild 9mm. These are just my personal views and opinions, good luck.

4

I am not going to try and portray myself as a 1911 aficianado, but my opinion is unless you are willing to spend a good amount of cash on having a quality 1911 base pistol worked on by a competent 1911 gunsmith, then you are just out of your league. While there are some good basic 1911’s out there that will run reliably out of the box, they will not have any of the creature comforts that most shooters desire such as proper sights, controls, and other features such as beveling, and magwell treatments, etc.

In order to have all of these common practical features, AND have a reliable pistol, it needs to be done correctly by highly skilled 1911 smith, and this will cost ALOT of money, and take a long time.

A good base pistol can be picked up for around $500-$800, and the more basic a base pistol is, the better. A basic, un-customized Colt 70 or 80 series pistol, or a Springfield “Loaded” or “GI” model are excellent choices for a base gun.

I think the best forum for 1911 info for someone looking for a reliable “duty ready” 1911 pistol is 10-8 forums. Heres a link to what Hilton Yam of 10-8 performance has to say about this exact topic: http://www.10-8performance.com/id8.html

Some more useful info: http://www.10-8performance.com/id11.html

5

I don’t know what anyone else thinks about them but I owned a GRIFFON 1911 for a couple years and never had a single issue with it. I bought mine for $420. Obviously you aren’t getting match grade but it has some nice features.

My understanding is that they are imported from South Africa by Sprinco (http://www.sprinco.com/griffon/) and then finished here with all the typical 1911 amenities. Griffon’s accept all colt parts as well.

Just an idea.

I now own a Springfield TRP Operator.

6

I would not be carrying the 1911 on duty. However I would carry it off duty sometimes and still would stake my life on it. My duty gun is a Glock, which I like. I guess I just thought that if the military used the 1911 and they still shot after all of the crap they went through (I know they were gone through on occasion) they would be a little more reliable, I guess not.

7

Yes and no.

There are individual specimens from several makers that will be reliable and durable…it’s just finding one that is the difficulty. During the low light class we asked Ken Hackathorn (a long time 1911 fan and advocate) about what he would purchase if he was buying 1911s. The long and short of it was that a lot of what companies put out today just doesn’t get it done.

Ken did mention that when Springfield’s custom shop isn’t busy they have some of their custom guys working on standard production guns…so if you can get one of those you’re probably GTG…of course, to the best of my knowledge there’s no way of knowing that you got one of those.

If you are looking to show up at your local gunstore and pick up a 1911 right off the shelf that will be GTG from day 1 and will provide a lifetime of reliable service for under 1,000, you’re probably out of luck.

Lately when people have asked me about what 1911 I would buy if I was in the market for a 1K or under 1911 my response has been the HK 45.

Have I been reading the articles on light fighter and other sights wrong? On light fighter they say that a $1500 1911 is a good “platform to start with.”

That seems to be the conventional wisdom from those in the know.

I just feel that if I have to spend $2500 on a 1911 that works “right” is just crazy.

You don’t have to go quite that high, but I think you are probably right with a bottom price of 1,500. You CAN come in under that, but it will be a combination of luck, careful shopping, and good info.

And are the Colts crap now?

When the new roll marked guns first came out some 1911 buffs said they were the best guns Colt had made in a long time. Of course, they were worried about things like fit and finish and I’m not sure they were subjected to hard use so take that with a grain of salt.

I’m not sure about the new production 70 series guns.

Are the old Series 70 Colts still considered a good 1911?

Assuming you are talking about the original production 70s, I believe a good 70 series Colt is still an excellent platform to use in creating a good custom 1911. The snag is that Colt collectors are fanatics about getting their hands on every good condition 70 they can find…raising the prices of a base gun. If you can find an original production series 70 NIB for under 800 bucks, you’re lucky. Then there’s the cost of having a competent smith work on the weapon to bring it up to spec…not cheap.

The good gunsmiths are worth their hire…but if you are on the average cop’s salary that’s probably outside your price range.

Thanks for any information or insight.

Hopefully one of the legitimate 1911 geniuses that hang out on this board will answer your question more thoroughly than a short-busser like myself can. The folks who know the most about this area are people like Mr. Vickers or the fellas from Heirloom Precision.

8

NO you do not need to spend $1500.00 to $2500.00 to have a good, trustworthy 1911.

First off a 1911 is not a Glock or HK. If that is your type of gun stick with it and stay away from the big boy guns. 1911 shooters are a breed to themselves. You are one or your not. You get the bug or you do not. There is no middle road.

Most 1911 gun makers use very close tolerances in their gun now and some do need a little adjustment or break-in. This is only about 300-500 rounds.

Most likely the two best out of the box 1911’s for duty use are the Springfield Operator and the Kimber Warrior. Price is from $950.00 to $1250.00 if you shop around.

I currently carry a Kimber Custom II (NIB $625.00) that I have replaced the thumb safety with a gunsite low thumb safety ($35.00) and replaced the Kimber sights with trijicon night sights ($65.00). I use good mags like Novak ($14.99), Tripp ($34.00) or Wilson ($24.00). I run at least 500 rounds a month through the gun now, more if I have a class. I also tune my 1911’s to the ammo that I shoot in them. Something that most people do not do.

Most 1911 FNG’s :

Do not use good magazines
Do not lube their guns correctly
Hold their gun improperly
Flinch when shooting
Jerk the trigger
Fear carrying the gun “cocked and locked”

I could keep going………….

At my Federal job I carry a HK (dressed) or 1911 (tactical) and at my State job I carry a 1911. I see these post of “how bad my XXXX 1911” is but those same people keep buying them. If they are so bad why are there so many company’s out there selling them. Even company’s that said in the past they never would have a 1911 style gun, are now producing 1911 guns.

The $2500.00 and up guns are very nice and every 1911 nut should be able to own at least two. You can get a good working gun for under $1500.00 without trying to hard.

OK rant over.

9

My springfield mil-spec is my most trusted 1911 with 3 thousand trouble free rounds so far.

Mine have “NM” in the serial and I’ve read that mil-specs with those markings are better fitted.

Before I ever fired it, I did put in a wilson’s “bullet proof” extractor though.

10

I’m not going to debate with anyone else & I’m sure you’ll get lots of opinions here - choose wisely. I used Colt almost exclusively until this decade, some needing more work than others, based on function & personal preference. I’ve been using, carrying, working on 1911s since the mid-70s when IPSC was something other than what it is today. Yes, I learned on Cooper & went from there. Hack & LAV have taken things to another level.

Out of the myriad of choices available, & within the parameters YOU set, I’d recommend a Springfield Loaded with NM serial number. Good luck.

11

With all due respect, that’s because there’s a market for them.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that what is being sold is any good…Like a wise instructor I trained under recently said:

“90% of the stuff on the market for AR’s is crap.”

The 1911 itself is a wonderful weapon when executed properly. It’s just finding the whole “executed properly” thing that seems to be a problem. There’s a big desire in the market for 1911s, either for rational reasons (such as how easy the 1911 is to use under stress) or irrational ones (lots of people just want one because they are friggin’ cool) and there are companies lining the block to try and get a piece of that action, just as there are in the AR market.

Unfortunately just like the AR market all the makers of the 1911 pattern aren’t equal.

12

We need “The Chart” for the 1911’s. That would be cool. :cool:

13

That is proof of the 1911 crapshoot! And I’m not saying I don’t believe you at all! It’s just that one of the worst production 1911s can even run great every once in a while.

Shoot! The most reliable 1911 I’ve ever owned was a Norinco with a $260 price tag new!

The 1911 is my favorite pistol to shoot for recreation. But to me the 1911 is the Legacy pistol. Is it capable of sending bullets into a bad guy? Of course! But there’s much better alternatives out there.

Just look at the NEW MAGS coming out for the 1911. :rolleyes: OK! The platform is about a hundred years old, and we still haven’t found the right mag for it?

14

Amen…

But I know I am way too stupid to come up with a list of what makes a good 1911 for serious social purposes. The mere existence of such a chart would probably cause hissing and spitting on boards all over the intarweb on an unprecedented scale.

15

You can get a good 1911 without spending $1500+ but keep in mind that pricing is largely feature dependent. Reliability is unfortunately luck of the draw, nobody puts out 100% reliable guns 100% of the time. In my mind this is what warranties are for. I’ve had good luck with the Colt’s that I’ve owned. Out of the box feature wise the XSE’s are a good deal (IMO), I’d pick one up along with a few CMC Powermags or Wilson’s, run a few hundred rounds through it to break it in and identify any issues and send it back to Colt for any issues that may pop up they’ll make it right.

16

In my own humble opinon this is the era of the internet. if one Kimber warrior fails then 100 of them did. I have a Kimber TLE with the EE never had a problem with it it never jammed till it needed new springs at 1800 rounds roughly (didnt know you had to change those) but with all the internet talk about the EE failing I replaced it with an IE model. It never jammed either but agian internet said it was failing. So I replaced with a Springfield TRP Operator. It wasnt until a shooting buddy asked me why im fixing shit that aint broke I felt like an idiot. (hes still shooting a Kimber TLE EE with over 7 thousend rounds and only had to replace springs and adjust the EE once)

If the OP buys a Kimber TLE RL 2 with the IE and it never jams did he still buy a POS because it wasnt a Wilson combat? or a Les bear? or a Nighthawk? Not to degrade semi custom guns, but damn lets not degrade production guns either if there are a good number working.

I know a guy who has a Wilson Combat that wont work for any ball ammo…are all Wilson Combat guns a POS now?

But what do I know :rolleyes:

17

You have a good point. But it goes both ways. You’ll get some guy that has a Kimber that runs good, so Kimbers are GOOD 1911s.

The 1911 platform is just hit and miss! Even a good one will sometimes start acting up for unknown reasons.

18

The Kimbers really have had problems…as a number of trainers will tell you.

It’s not just “the internet” and rumors on message boards that are behind this. There really are some brands and models that have been plagued with problems that typically show up in intensive training courses.

One of the benefits of training with someone like Mr. Vickers is that he’ll tell you straight up what he’s seen with a particular weapon and/or brand. Ditto Mr. Hackathorn.

19

Kimbers have been the most problematic guns in the classes I’ve taken for sure.

20

what always kills me is that people wont spend an extra $200…

I have an original ADCO RRA 1911…it has NEVER failed…never…i have no idea what the round count is…its a lot…i paid a little over $1300 for it…only about $200 for the kimber with comprable features…

if i give one piece of advice to new 1911 purchasers its to not shy away from used “high quality” guns…

too many people I see spend $1000 on a kimber or one of the less reliable colts, when $1200 would buy them a used Ed Brown, RRA, Baer, or even an older Wilson CQB if they are patient and look for the right deal…(i have gotten Yost 1* guns for in the 1000-1200 range…)

yes, it is “used” and you dont know the history, but if you do your research, and are smart you are typically buying from a 1911 “guy”…furthermore a lot of the “quality” 1911 manufacturers stand by their guns no matter how you got it…

a 3 year old, 4000 round RRA is still a better gun than any brand new kimber…