Diagnose my shooting please ...

Training Training and Tactics
1

I have been training with the following regimen and would like some help with the pattern I’m seeing. I have attached a picture of my target from yesterday morning. My pistol is a G17 w/ x300 and rifle is a Noveske 10.5 SBR w/ T1 and SF mini scout. All rounds are accounted for on cardboard and are shown in an image below. The circle is a diameter of 4.75 inches (traced a drink coaster).

The majority of my strings from Saturday were fired NOT from concealment with 1 exception I’ve noted. All of these were fired on a plinking range at my club at about 10-12 yards. The time goals I have found appropriate to push my skill level and I can reach them successfully about 60-70% of the time. My goal is to keep my round count low as of now, I will practice with more follow up rounds when I can get my hands on some more ammo.

Pistol only - all aimed at black circle
10 slow fire good trigger pulls with follow through - able to group them all touching each other at the center of the circle.
10 reps - Draw and fire with time goal of 1.5 seconds.
5 - Draw a fire (same time goal) then perform tactical reload.
5 - Load 1 round, fire, emergency reload, fire again with time goal 2.7 seconds.
5 - Loaded magazine, empty chamber, draw, click, tap rack bang. 3 seconds.
5 - Double feed clearance and fire 1 round - 5 seconds. (Threw the round low right after dropping my reload, rushing and firing from kneeling)

Rifle - all aimed at black circle
10 - Fire from standing time goal 0.7 seconds
10 - Load 1 round, fire, emergency reload, fire again with time goal 2.7 seconds.
10 rounds - 5 at a time - upon beep, fire from standing 5 rounds time goal 2.1

Rifle and pistol - aimed a black circle
5 or 10 (don’t remember exact #) - Load 1 rifle round, fire, re-engage safety, transition to pistol, fire 1 round. Time goal 2 seconds, this one particularly challenges me with my pistol transition and acquiring a solid sight picture.

Pistol only from concealment aimed at head.
10 - draw from concealment and fire 1 to head. Time goal 1.8 seconds.

I am hoping this shot pattern can be discerned by some of the knowledgable folks here. One thing I think I would like to try from reading some of Pat McNamara’s work is to get a little more of my finger on the trigger with my pistol which may help me from drifting left so often. Any help/suggestions are much appreciated, apologies for the long post I just wanted to provide as much information as possible.

**For some reason I can’t get the full picture to stand upright in this post so I cropped for the sake of craning necks.

cpoth

2

Looks like you got him.

3

Link: glock shooting left I tried to paste the link, but it wouldn’t work–Google Glock shooting left.

Glocks are notorious for shooting left, link: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_13/99034_.html

I have had it myself, & practice gets rid of it. So I never adjust my sights until i’m 100% certain it’s the gun & not me.

4

Thats a great post. I will definitely try that dry fire for a little and then get out to the range ASAP. I read Pat McNamara’s TAPS book that addresses it as well with the same suggestion of a little more finger on the trigger. Its going to be tough to train myself to do that but its definitely worth the effort.

Thanks MSW.

5

I would be less concerned with the “Glocks shoot left” mystique. I’m left handed and when I don’t use solid fundamentals my Glocks shoot right. It’s hard to coach from the internet but shooting to the left and right can commonly be attributed to not isolating the trigger finger or engaging the rest of your hand during the trigger press. Low shots can also be attributed to anticipation. If your goal is A zone hits I would slow down, lowering time standards when your satisfied with your hits. Solid grip (some say crushing some say 60/40), sight alignment, isolate the trigger finger, and follow through while resting the trigger. The good shooters like Latham do the basics very well, including lots of dry fire, there’s no magic. My shooting went to another level after using crush grippers and dry firing religiously. Take this info with a grain of salt and ultimately do what works for you. Good luck.

6

Thanks jpeezy,

I tried dry firing with increasing trigger pressure and did not notice my sights drift left. They stayed pretty true, if anything the front sight dropped when I squeezed extremely hard. I am thinking this may be me trying to push speed and in the process losing fundamentals. After I tried that with just the trigger finger I tried squeezing my whole hand and found that it did push my sights slightly left. I think its still hard to tell but the advice of slowing down and getting good dry fire reps and quality range time may do me a lot of good in solving my problem.

I appreciate the comments and time in helping me with this,
cpoth

7

I find things go haywire when I shoot faster than my britches can handle. It takes me a couple of weeks of basics to slow down after I attend a pistol class where we’re blazing. It’s good to push your comfort level but you can’t miss fast enough. Sounds like your on a good path.

8

Jpeezy’s advise is right on the money. Slow down, pay attention to your fundamentals, and dry fire. Also consider some dummy rounds for live fire drills. Even without the dummies, enough dry fire will make you intimately familiar with your trigger. I’ve read McNamara’s TAPS also and am planning to be in one of his classes this year. Also consider looking at Haley Strategic Partners or You Tube for Ron Avery’s Science of Shooting. His videos are very educational and teach a lot about speed. As far as your carbine is concerned, TAPS offers some good tips in regard to solid shooting stance, and pulling the carbine deep into your shoulder pocket and establishing a solid cheek weld.

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9

What’s your goal with the practice? Are you practicing for competitions or self defense?

If its the latter, you don’t have an issue. If its the former, then compare the target to a competition one and see how many of your shots fall outside the zero ring.

10

First time shooting this pistol. 15 yds M&P 9mm FS & 147gr Win JHP.
The 2 holes in the white above not included. I folded the target over for the photo.
TX DPS CHL Qualifying Target. I have never shot left before, with my Sig’s!

11

I would best describe my goals as maximizing competition opportunities to excel in self defense. I hope that is not a cheapo answer, I just want to ensure that my priorities are clearly stated. I don’t do any kind of modification to my guns that ONLY increases my ability to compete but gives disadvantages in self defense (ie. reloading rounds with very low power factor or running a star wars era chromed race gun, etc). (As a side note I have a complex when it comes to everyone in IDPA wearing a fcking fishing vest to compete. I’ve never seen those dudes in public with their fishing vest on and I remind them every time I see them out and about.)

One of my biggest struggles in shooting is balancing speed and accuracy. I find myself pushing speed while trying to maintain hits and in this case based on my circle I was unable to keep it “acceptable”. In the example of my original post, I have noticed I’ve taken a step back in accuracy from previous trips to the range for practice and training. I recently shortened my time goals for some of my strings while dry fire practicing and I think that in my haste to maintain short times I have been squeezing my whole hand as was previously suggested and pushing shots left.

I will be putting in time every night this week in dry fire with a special focus on consistent rearward pressure as I break my shot and consistent follow through and sight picture maintenance throughout. If I am lucky I may be able to attend a steel match Saturday afternoon and put this all to the test.

I guess one of my follow up questions may be as follows… How do you know when you are pushing yourself appropriately versus when you are pushing yourself into bad habits?

Thanks to all for your responses,
cpoth

12

To answer your follow up question, I would suggest that’s when you feel satisfied that you’re meeting your training goal. If you’re seeing your accuracy improve, it’s probably safe to say that you’re not exhibiting bad habits. Good luck at Saturdays match if you’re able to attend.

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