I could not find the thread that dealt with that Pilot who had an AD. But this may explain what happened:
http://www.crimefilenews.com/2008/03/video-of-dangerous-firearm-policy-of.html
Holy shit…thats the dumbest idea I ever heard…give them a gun, then tell them they can’t carry it…instead fumble around with it, stick a padlock through the trigger guard of a loaded weapon, take it off to hit the head…jeez.
If TSA is going to arm their pilots…they need somebody with some tactical “common sense” to set their policies.
I agree. They should have required these guys to use a Level 3 holster rather than that silly padlock!!
If that was the case, then I would “ASSUME” there was/is NO TRAINING either. Just here it is F**K with it and fly the plane.
“NO JOB IS TO IMPORTANT THAT YOU CANNOT TAKE THE TIME FOR SAFTY OR TRAINING.”
That ranks pretty high on my “Dumbest Things I’ve Seen Today” list.
:eek: :eek: :eek: 
what tards I would be bitching for the company to pay for training if the gave the ok to carry and a padlock???
They are supposedly trained at FLETC and another Federal facility. The guys who I know who went through the training told me that it was actually pretty good.
But as shown in the video, the addition of a padlock and the choice of holster seem to be a contributing factor to this accident and I agree. I personally would have gone with a Kydex holster.
The holster/lock system is used by many federal law enforcement agencies.
The demonstration in the video makes it look simple, but there are a number of things that all have to happen in a specific sequence for a problem to happen:[ol]
[li] The snap on the holster has to be disengaged. This is contrary to SOP. There has been no allegation by the pilot that the holster somehow unsnapped itself.[/li][li] The pistol has to come at least partway out of the holster. Even in the video, the demonstrator needs to exert a reasonable amount of force to make this happen.[/li][li] Without noticing that the thumbreak is unsnapped and without noticing that the gun is partially out of the holster, the pilot need to install the lock.[/li][li] After the lock is installed, the pilot then had to notice the gun wasn’t completely holstered and unsnapped … and pressed the gun into the holster to snap it.[/ol][/li]
He did all of these things while, according to the pilots’ union, “he was trying to fly the airplane, too.” Which is also against SOP.
FFDO firearms training specifically covers the proper way to put the gun safely in the holster for secure storage and transport.
There are very specific reasons the FFDO program is required to use this particular holster set up, and it was something the pilots negotiated for as opposed to an original plan that wouldn’t let them carry in a holster at all. As I’ve said before, if you’ve been involved in the FFDO program since it was first being debated post-9/11 you know that there have been some very fierce political battles between the FAA, TSA, the various pilots’ unions, the airlines, and Congress. It’s the pilot’s unions who are now pushing this story about blaming the holster.
it sounds like the pilot did make a series of errors.
but that holster setup is just downright silly.
there has to be a better way.
you know that there have been some very fierce political battles between the FAA, TSA, the various pilots’ unions, the airlines, and Congress.
Wasn’t the law passed, and then subsequently years passed before the pilots were allowed to go armed?
Politics blah.
Is there a better solution more importantly?
I imagine a better solution will be found to avoid even the potential for this kind of thing to happen again. There are some very specific requirements that need to be met, though, and as I said this holster set-up was originally chosen as a more desirable alternative to the earliest proposals.
FFDOs are only allowed to be armed while on the flight deck. So when they’re walking through the airport or flying as a passenger, their pistol needs to be secured. Part of that process was the locking holster. This was deemed better by the pilots than having a lock box they’d have to carry around.
If I had to guess – and this really is a guess, not something I’ve discussed with anyone at TSA – there will be a new holster with a different locking mechanism which won’t involve the trigger guard in any way. Maybe it will lock the thumbsnap in place or something.
Time to put on the old thinking caps, and come up with a solution. After all if you have a very damn good solution, you will have a captive market for your sales.
You just need to sell to the unions, TSA, FFA, Ect.
GITTERDONE!!!
Shouldn’t that have been the prudent course of action in the first place?
With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, sure.
As I’ve said, this holster/lock combo has been in use for years (more than a decade) without incident. It’s been used by pilots on aircraft since the FFDO program started. TSA was under extremely heavy pressure to the get the program up and running as quickly as possible. Delaying while a new holster was designed, tested, approved, manufactured, and distributed probably wasn’t an option. And again, at the time, they had what appeared to be a proven system in the holster which is now considered such an abomination.
A need for speed is understandable, but this should have been obvious even without hindsight. If someone tells me to stick something into the trigger guard of a weapon, I’m going to look at them like they’re insane.
There really isnt any difference between sticking your finger in there, or using your finger(s) to stick something else in there instead - all weapons are always loaded, and you don’t put your finger on the trigger (or in the trigger guard, generally speaking) until you’re going to fire the weapon.
I know you don’t need any reminder of that, but there is a difference between taking advantage of hindsight (the benefit of hindsight being, as noted before, not needed here) and second guessing decisions in lousy situations (needing to field something fast).
So again, this wasn’t something that was “fielded fast.” It had been around and been in wide use by other LE organizations for many years.
It was policy. It was either abide by these rules, or don’t participate in the program.
A friend of mine participates in the program, and is very well disciplined WRT gun handling…he’s a pretty good shoot, too. He has definitely gone through some good formal training through the program, but also seeks out more on his own time.
The system they had to use has it’s draw backs…but the guy who had the ND still had to do the things Todd pointed out about.