Glad Im not alone
Guess I will give it a try
if i can keep em on a 1/3 scale IPSC target at 25 yards i’m happy with it. That’s as good as i shoot. Basically A-zones in a regualr sized IPSC.
my glock 19 I’m certain is capable of better accuracy than me.
Even my j-frame is dead on when i do my part.
That said i’m probably not at the point as a shooter where i can outshoot normal gear.
What accuracy standard should be considered a valid requirement a duty/CCW pistol?
The esteemed Larry Vickers states that a combat pistol needs a 2.5" mechanical accuracy at 25 yds in order ensure about 5" during a stressful lethal force encounter: http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/accuracy/.
When Pat Rogers used to have me present the wound ballistics module at Camp Pendleton SOTG Range 130, the USMC MEU-SOC .45 ACP 1911’s in use there typically could shoot groups between 3 to 5 inches at 25 yards–this was considered quite acceptable by the Force Recon Marines.
Most folks consider the G17 to offer acceptable accuracy. Now the guys at TigerSwan are very dialed in shooters, yet in Brian Searcy’s recent thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=98542), he describes how a stock G17 is not accurate enough for his needs so he replaces the barrel to tighten things up.
At 25 yds my stock OEM barreled G17’s typically shoot all inside the black 9 ring on a NRA B8 (around a 3.5-5" group at 25 yds), but not much better. In contrast, most OEM barreled M&P45’s I’ve shot can keep much everything pretty much in the 10 ring (about a 2.5-3" group at 25 yds); likewise my G17’s with match barrels (KKM or Wilson) shoot about the same. On the other hand, my old custom match grade 1911’s could routinely drill out the X-ring (sub 2" group at 25 yds).
I am currently qualified on, carry, and am perfectly happy with the 9 mm Glock and .45 ACP M&P45; thus for me, acceptable accuracy for a duty/CCW pistol is between 3-5 inches at 25 yds.
Do you think the problem with Glocks isn’t so much accuracy, but consistancy when it comes to accurate barrels?
3-5" at 25 meters is perfectly fine with me without a rest.
I do like Grant’s 10m headshot as a viable second criteria though. I wonder if I could pull that off while running.
Looks like I’ve got something to try for…
10 yd headshot on demand is a good criteria.
Another good standard to test oneself is the LAPD SWAT pistol qual; I just put this up as a PT DOW: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5515-Week-47-DB-Modified-LAPD-SWAT-Qual.
Kyle Defoor’s three Pistol tests are a great assessment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJtczDAUul0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcoBHmXHxMk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wugfoKJ0-fA&feature=plcp.
Another EXCELLENT way to grade yourself is the http://www.hardwiredtacticalshooting.com/ 2 second standards–their classes are highly recommended!
I’m happy if the gun will do 2" or better rested off the bench. I test at 20 yds, more a function of my eyesight than anything else. Most of my Glocks will meet this standard with several loads. I’ve only got one pistol, a FS M&P .40 that I haven’t been able to find a load that will do better than 2.5". You know you have a good shooter when it will do 1.5" or less with multiple loads.
Doc, thank you for that post. I see I’m gonna be busy. 
As a relative newcomer to the pistol world, my standard for 25yd accuracy is 4" 10-shot offhand. I viewed it as not great, but good enough to mean I have at least got the concept of fundamentals. If Im getting 4" groups, the pistol is accurate enough, as I know Im not shooting perfectly everytime. My main purposes are self defense, and eventually competition.
Funny story: I was out shooting last week, and my friend just got a usp 40. He was hitting left and said the sights might be off, so I shot a mag to see… Even my bad shots, the holes were exactly where the sights were when the trigger broke(not used to trigger). Maybe its the sight radius, but I cant do that with my gun(cz75 compact, 40 with SAO polished trigger). I’d say that gun is VERY accurate.
My Sig P226 9mm is more accurate than any of my striker fired pistols. I dont shoot from a rest or from any farther than 15 yards. The difference is i can shoot my striker fired guns faster than the Sig and still get hits on target.
A head shot at 10m is a good standard. I usually ask for a head shot at 15m before I deem anything exceptional. My Aegis Pro is able to hit a 12 inch at 100 yards. That is more than exceptional in my eyes.
I took my MNP Pro 5 inch to the range and my 4.25 full size and shot them both. The Pro is designed to be “accurate” and it drove ragged holes at 7 yards off hand.
My eyes are not good enough to truly test a handgun at 25 yards for holding 1-3 inch groups. But I shot my hole 3 times barely enlarging it out of the five shots. Dead nuts accurate.
The service size with factory sights and apex trigger, threaded barrel opened up a little. But seemed combat accurate. No real shocker on poor accuracy. I don’t like the apex triggers as much as the ones that come with the Pro. I’m sure sights have something to do with it.
As an expansion on my 10 yard head shot… I do a movie theater drill.
3 body shots as fast as I can get them on an IPSC steel, followed by 2 well aimed head shots… to simulate the asshole that shot up the Batman movie.
+1 indeed
the above statements quoted by Mr Vickers stand. If you get a pistol that is a 6 inch 25 yard grouper on the range it will be a 1 foot grouper (if you are lucky ) in a fight. The most reliable accurate psitol you can manage is the answer. all chest thumping aside,not all of us can carry a 5 inch 1911 every day. my day to day gun is an old smith 36 in an ankle holster. can hit a ipsc steel target from the draw in three seconds at 100 yards. I call that good enough. could I shoot that accurately in a fight - highly doubtful, but better to have the capability there than not.
My accuracy standard for modern combat autos is less stringent than for 1911’s or revolvers,simply because they just are not as inherently accurate. Will they get the job done most of the time- absolutely.
I’d go with this.
Okie John
Hard to argue with LAV’s 2.5" standard or his logic about the need for that degree of accuracy. The interesting thing is that it’s harder to live up to this accuracy standard than you’d think.
With tuned 1911’s, as some have noted, it’s not a problem. My custom 1911’s (Springfield Custom and Cylinder & Slide) can both do 5-shot groups under 2" at 25. Even with WWB bulk ammo.
With my four M&P 9’s, it’s more of a mixed bag. In factory configuration, none of them could hold 2.5" groups @25. In fact, except for the M&P9 Pro (which has always been accurate), they’d all consistently group at 6", or larger. With custom-fit barrels on two of them (Storm Lake barrels fitted at G&R Tactical), they now hold 3" groups, and can do 2.5" or better if I use ammo they like, and IF I do my job. At least with these rebarreled M&P’s, I no longer feel like there’s a mechanical/fitting issue in the pistol that’s holding back the accuracy potential.