Anybody have experience with LED bulbs made by Cree? Thinking about picking up some for shits and giggles.
I have two of them, and have been running them in the G2s on my 10.5" and 14.5" for a year or so now. Very satisfactory.
I have one in my G2 nitrolon. I absolutely love it. My only complaint is the color temperature, but hopefully that’ll be fixed someday.
From what I have heard the Cree bulbs can vary in quality from where they come from. The Malkoff devices’ bulbs are supposed to be very high quality from the research I have done. You can get them with different flood designs and brightness. I’m going to order one soon for a 6P.
Best drop in for 6P sized light is Malkoff. There are several options depending on if you want longer runtime/dimmer light, or cooler vs. warmer tint, throw vs. flood, etc. Can’t go wrong with a Malkoff. Anyone running any actual bulb these days in light that size is a moron.
Or not a flashlight nerd 
You’re really trying to win hearts and minds these days in the flashlight threads, eh?
Imagine someone who is just getting into AR style rifles coming in to find a post that said, “Anyone running a Bushmaster these days is a moron.” Not everyone is up to date on all the top-tier gear.
In any regard, I agree with you that Malkoff is top of the pack for P60 drop-ins. I have a number of them and can recommend them without hesitation.
As noted above, many manufacturers (from crap to quality) use the Cree, so just keep that in mind.
For those of you who have not tried anything that uses a Cree, you will be amazed at the brightness/runtime difference compared to previous LED technology. It’s great having so much brightness and runtime, all in a package that doesn’t blow out from hard drops or even repeated heavy recoil.
(And just to get pedantic for a sec… a Cree isn’t a bulb: it’s a diode. LEDs don’t have bulbs, after all. Like I said, it’s pedantic, but for a flashlight nerd it’s like hearing people say ‘clip’ instead of ‘magazine’ :p)
You guys could educate the rest of us knuckle dragging, non flashlight edumacated cavemen
Would the Malkoff bulb fit my G2s? How about my Novatac 120p? What are the tradeoffs?
Malkoff would fit in your G2 (or any light that uses a P60 module), although you shouldn’t use the brightest versions that he makes in one: the plastic body will not dissipate the heat efficiently enough and you will damage the LED over time. With that said, even the “low output” model (which he approves for sustained G2 use) is pumping around 140 lumens. Check out the stats at that link I just provided for more info.
They will not fit in your Novatac.
Gimme a little bit as I’ve got to step away from the PC but I’ll share some quick trade-offs (in my humble opinion) in a sec…
OK, I will tread lightly as the Incan vs LED debate is about as heated as 9mm vs .45 and other such nonsense. I will try not to tip any sacred cows but if you want a lot more detail and argument, you can Google for thousands of hours worth of reading and people yelling at each other. CandlePowerForums is a quick source of info and arguing.
The quick (and simplified) run-down is this:
LEDs are more energy efficient mostly because they emit light in a more narrow spectrum than incans do (similar to a CFL bulb versus an old incan in your home fixtures). Incan is emitting light outside the visible spectrum, which for the purpose of seeing stuff with the naked eye is wasted energy.
One of my DSLRs is converted to take infrared images so I will post some pictures this weekend showing what I mean.
In the old days, this just used to translate to runtime: LEDs still weren’t able to compete with the brightness of the better incans though. With the Cree, this all changed. LEDs doubled in efficiency with the Cree revolution, which meant that you could either get twice the brightness or twice the runtime than before.
LEDs are easier to regulate (I.E. maintain a constant brightness across battery life) rather than incan lights which slowly start dimming as soon as you start using the batteries. There have been a small handful of regulated incans in the past, but they are few and far between.
Additionally, LEDs can be put into a package with much wider voltage tolerances. This allows for the easy use of alternate battery technology like lithium ion rechargeable cells. For my Malkoff, I can run it on one 18650, one 17670, 2x123 or 3x123 (what you are used to), or 2xRCR123. All of those besides the 2/3 x 123 are li-ion rechargeable cells.
LEDs do not have a filament that blows out, so you can abuse the ever-loving crap out of them. If they fail, it will generally be because you damaged the wiring or internal components rather than the emitter itself.
With all that said, LEDs are heat sensitive. Not like you can’t use them on a warm day, just that you need to be wary of heat-sinking. Heat degrades their lifespan and will affect brightness. Most lights are built with adequate heat-sinking, it’s just something to consider if you are playing LEGO with your light parts.
Also, since LEDs throw a more narrow spectrum of light as noted above, they reflect a slightly different image to your eye than an incan does. Some will say this is only because of their color (they tend to throw cooler light than incan, but this can be mitigated to some extent), but really more is at play.
Because of this, some people still prefer to use incans in certain environments (like out in the woods), despite their inefficiencies. In many people’s experience (including my own), an incan gives slightly more depth perception in the woods.
Again, some will say this is just because of the color of light, but others will say it is because the way different plants and materials reflect different bands of light. It is another heated argument so no use really getting into much of it. Suffice it to say, you should test your gear in your expected settings and find how well you can see.
Some also say that incans throw farther than LEDs, but with the brightness levels possible these days, I just don’t really see the issue. I’ve never been in a situation where my bright LEDs couldn’t throw far enough for me, including spotting across a frozen lake at night.
This weekend I will search for reviews I have done of older generation Crees for some images to share.
I am not a subject matter expert, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. There are more educated men than me in these matters, including guys who can go into great detail on the human eye and our perception of light.
I am an enthusiast, however, and have been a light nerd for almost a decade. I have more lights sitting around than I can count, and I know what has worked well for me. I can’t say what will work well for everyone, but am happy to share my opinions where they might be helpful.
Hope that helps some. If that is way off base from what you were looking for, just give me a friendly kick in the ass and let me know what you wanted.
Very interesting so far and thank you for the sharing of your knowledge. Do the aftermarket LEDs help battery life as well? Can the Malkoff drop into a G2 incan?
The Malkoffs will fit into incan SureFires that use the P60 module. For my carbines, I bought new SF incan G2’s since they are cheaper than the G2L (and use a plastic head instead of metal) and then dumped the incans out of them for Malkoff Low (140 lumens).
The G2 is just basically a battery tube with a switch. All the electronics that decide performance are in the Malkoff. Even the low module will give me more brightness for a longer time than the stock incan bulb.
As for aftermarket improving battery life, it all depends on what you are replacing with the aftermarket. Different units will be more or less efficient not only because of their emitter but because of the circuit. For example, two manufacturers could built units with identical emitters, but they could perform differently in brightness, runtime, overall efficiency, and acceptable battery types based on the circuit that is used. This info should be presented when you look at the specs though (the Malkoff I linked to, for example, is rated at 3.8 - 9 volts input).
Some will let you get away with a very low input voltage and use a boost circuit to provide enough power to the LED. Some will let you use a very high voltage input and use a buck circuit to lower it for the LED to safely use. Some will use a buck/boost and allow you a wide range in both directions.
Indeed. This stuff is making such rapid advancements, that IMO, anyone whose already replaced all his shit with what’s available now is a fool.
Tomorrow there’ll be something even better, and next week… :eek: you’ll be able to leave it on for 50,000 hours like an aimpoint.
I have a little bit of LED, but the INCAN lights I still run are no dimmer than they were yesterday.
I have about 2K in Surefire lights so I think I classify as a flashlight nerd. Just not overly nerdy.
I still hve a few lights in incan. bulbs in them. For me and my needs, around 120 lumens is ample light for me. I think some people are going for more and more output and not realizing that great amounts of light can be as much of a hinderence as it is help.
Good point.
When the Cree emitters first came out a few years ago, I was one of the pack that was racing for the brightest. I finally came to my senses and realized that a wall of light that blinds me as much as it illuminates things is pretty stupid. The great thing about using such efficient emitters though is that you can choose a unit that has scaled the brightness back down to sane levels, in exchange for insane run times. That “low” Malkoff linked above provides 140 lumens for 4.5 hours on two 123 cells. Compare that with the SureFire P61 incan (which used to be one of the gold standards for a bright light) which gives you 120 lumens for 15 minutes.
LEDs also offer more flexibility for multi-level lighting, with flashlights that offer dimming or multiple levels of brightness.
My daily pocket carry light, a NiteCore PD10 (with Q5 emitter), offers me 130 lumens for 50 minutes at its highest setting, or 3 lumens for 45 hours at its lowest setting. It can be ramped to any level between those two for my preferred combination of brightness and runtime and it does all of that on a single AA cell! Such things were unheard of just a few years ago.
As for incans still offering the same performance they did a few years ago: that is true. They have not gotten any worse. If you are happy with their performance then there is no need to spend money for something else. With that said, one of the most enticing reasons to switch over to the dark side of LEDs (outside of performance) is the fact that they don’t burn out. They don’t pop or shatter. They don’t care if you accidentally drop them or hit them with too much recoil.
I used to use SureFire incan bulb assemblies so I’m not just making blind accusations. I know that it’s not as if they blow out every two seconds, but they do have a limited running life. We all know that eventually you’ll hear that stomach churning hiss-pop as the bulb burns out.
What is the difference between the the Cree Q5 and R2 emitter? Is one better than the other for flashlight purposes?
Yeah, I suppose I could have provided a bit more explanation. I’m so used to the flashlight forum I go to where such stuff is common knowledge I get a bit ahead of myself.
I should have gone on to say the Malkoff drop-in has been the dominant replacement drop in for the “P60” for awhile, and there really isn’t anything on the horizon right now that looks like it will pass it up. And seeing as how the incan P60s will burn out or break sooner or later anyway, it does make sense to get one.
I just picked up a Surefire E2DL Defender. It is bright as hell imo, but are there any upgrade kits available for it?
Any input as to how Wolf Eyes compares to Malkoff?