Friend of mine at work who I do some IDPA and steel shoots and he is wanting to get into 3 gun. He has an AK and I told him he would be better served with an AR for 3 gun. So he tell’s me last week that he had got his AR and that it was an Adam’s piston AR. I asked why he got a piston gun he said he had done the research and that it would be cleaner, more reliable and that it was what all gun designs were heading towards. I asked if he planned on running a SBR or supressed or planned to be in firefights of several thousand rounds fired at a time (NO to all 3). I told him that he gained more recoil, less accuracy and non standard parts with his piston gun. I asked him why he didn’t ask me about the gun before he bought and he said he had done research. Told him that I carried an M16A2 for 7 years and I have owned a BCM and Daniel Defense AR for several years with lots of rounds down range without a single issue. I mentioned the military has been using DI for 40+ years after moving from a piston design in the M14.
I know there has been lot’s of discussion in the past on piston vs DI and don’t want to beat a dead horse. I’m far from a SME on DI but do have years of exerience with the A2 and Ar’s. Find it kind of frustrating when you feel like you could help somebody make a better choice before they spend $. So our 1st 3 gun when my DD runs 100% and IF his piston gun is problematic is it OK to say well I told you so…
I know exactly what you mean. I had a very similar situation but my friend asked me for my advice. I explained why I thought the piston was not what he needed and he went ahead and bought it anyways. Sometimes people just do what they want to do. And yes a I told you so will come out of my mouth when the opportunity presents itself.
I have a number of friends should shoot Huldra in a variety of venues, including 3-gun. Huldra is an Adams Arms piston gun with some proprietary modifications. Great firearm, works well for 3-gun according to them.
Sometimes I think we get too wrapped up in what other people buy. Who cares if it has issues? I’m having some major issues with a DI gun right now from a well respected manufacturer that’s been sent back for repair twice. If a piston owner told me at a 3-gun match “I told you so” I’d probably take a swing at 'em.
Our world would be pretty boring if everyone used the same things… I’m not a fan of a piston AR (save for the PWS) for anything, but if someone wants to rock one, let em. Some folks have to learn by doing.
As long as we accept the very real possibility that he can bust ours right back when our DI gun fails and his piston keeps running. Not a rare occurrence in my experience. For my part, I’m know I’m not necessarily smarter about firearms than some of my piston gun buddies.
Yeah this would definetely be giving a buddy some friendly crap for his choice. I’ve been to shoots with folks who were having all kinds of problems with jammomatic garbage but I don’t give unsolicited advice to folks I don’t really know. It’s hard not to come off as an A…Hole so I just keep my mouth shut and rock on. Now with a buddy it’s a different story - fair game.
Be the better man. IF his AR gives him problems, offer to let him use your AR for the next match. He should be able to come up with his own conclusions. If he doesn’t have problems, good for him and all is well. Like “richiecotite” said, if he really gets into the AR platform, he’ll have a few more in the future!
You keep them guessing.:dirol: I own both (“name brand”) DI and Piston AR’s along with the different models of them. I’m a shooter collector and really haven’t really had trouble with any of them.:).
I told him that he gained more recoil, less accuracy
Both incorrect.
How do you quanitfy the first, and how do you attribute the second to the operating mechanism of the gun?
If the gun is heavier due to the addition of a piston, this results in LESS recoil energy. If the piston system changes the amount of gas entering the system and used to cycle the action rod, thereby increasing the velocity of the reciprocating parts of the gun, felt recoil, ie how recoil is perceived by the shooter, can change. Recoil, Conservation of momentum as per physics, is not affected by this.
With regards to accuracy, how does the piston and rod affect accuracy? Seeing as the bullet is out of the muzzle before the piston moves to the rear. Or do piston guns unlock with the projectile still in the barrel? If accuracy is poor, it can be due to a poorly manufactured barrel or bad crown specific to a brand, but does not automatically apply just because it is a piston gun.
In my opinion, shooter ability plays a much bigger role in recoil control and accuracy, than hardware or design, with the AR platform in 5.56.
Adams Arms is one of the few companies that doesn’t make a piston AR that is a worthless hunk of shit. If you knew about Adams Arms then you would know that he made an okay choice. It’s not my first choice for a piston gun but it is a hell of a lot better than you seem to expect it to be. Unless of course he got one that doesn’t have a pinned gas block but I think they stopped making those. Accuracy has more to do with the shooter, barrel quality, and ammo quality if you ask me.
I’ve used the AR platform since 1978 when I went in the Army, and have a nice collection of Colts and one LMT. The DI system has been just fine for me, but I have always been interested in how clean the piston system seems to operate. At least that is what I have read. Never shot a piston AR but I would like to check one out for 200-500 rounds and see if it’s worth the extra cost.
I will have to agree with Arctic1 on this one. I have 5 gas rod rifles and 2 piston rifles. The gas rods are a DD,Colt,CMMG,RRA & S&W. All function great. My piston rifles are an HK and a Sig and also function great. The Hk is second only to the 24" RRA Varmint in accuracy. The recoil is different on both piston rifles, but has very little muzzle rise. I prefer the “straight back” push of the piston rifles. The Sig 516 has one of the lightest pulls to cock and weighs in a just a 1/4 or so of a pound heavier than my 6920. Both types of rifles have advantages and disadvantages, I honestly think if someone buys either, I will support them and hope it serves their needs. I hope your buddy’s rifle lasts a lifetime.
DI vs. Piston and advice not heeded, etc… As Red Jacket would say “N’ver Been Done Befo”. One thing I always tell people to keep in the back of their minds. Anything like a piston AR or whatever that makes use of proprietary components has the potential of going under/ weapons ban, etc… and then you will be hostage to the prices for whatever parts are on the market.
BTDT and it’s frustrating to be sure. Similar to how I approach fitness/health topics, I don’t tend to offer any advice unless asked specifically. That avoids a lot of frustration I have found. I’m not expert on ARs, but I have taken the time to STFU and listen to those who are, and at least know where to send people who ask to the resources (M4C, etc) to get them the best intel.
Once they start to experience problems, you can say “gee, that sucks” with all known smile.
I find this type of thing happens most with those guns, such as ARs and 1911s, where to the glance, they look essentially the same.
