Considering the Snub Nose Reload - Spares Carry

General Firearms Handguns - Revolvers
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Snub interest and discussion has been particularly popular of late, so I offer the following as we deepen our knowledge base and consider our options.

Purpose: Compare the time required to reload and fire 20 rounds from a 5-shot snub revolver using three spare ammunition carry methods.

Start position: 5 fired cases placed in the cylinder, gun held in a two handed firing grip, covering a target placed at 7 yards. Spare ammunition set out on a table top in front of the shooter.

Instructions: On the tone from the shot timer continuously reload from the loader specified (below), firing the ammunition in the cylinder to the designated target zone until 20 total rounds have been fired.

Target: 8”/-0 zone, RGT-1 target (https://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=RGT-1)

Drill 1: Safariland Comp 1 Speed Loader
Loaded: Capacity
Time (1): 34.51, Clean, 1:1.73 sec
Time (2): 31.68, 17/20 hits, 1:1.58 sec

Drill 2: Bianchi Speed Strips
Loaded: 4 strips of 5 rounds each
Time: 52.02, 18/20 hits, 1:2.6 sec

Drill 3: Bianchi Speed Strips
Loaded: 5 strips of 4 rounds each, load to middle four slots
Time: 54.27, 18/20 hits, 1:2.71 sec

Notes and Discussion:

Target size and distance was chosen to prevent artificially rapid fire for the sake of setting up the reload.

Spares carriers (pouches, pockets, etc) were not utilized to prevent giving any reload configuration possible advantage.

20 rounds was the quantity selected as it was the lowest mathematical intersection for the chosen reload configurations.

Reloading via speed loader was ~34% and ~40% faster than the lowest time for any speed strip configuration.

The rate of fire averaged over each string with speed loaders was 1 round every 1.58 and 1.73 seconds. The best speed strip run was 1 round every 2.6 seconds.

For the two speed strip configurations, it took approximately the same amount of time to load and fire the revolver with 4 rounds 5 times, as reloading with 5 rounds 4 times. This is due to the amount of time required to index the speed strip and cylinder to load the remaining fifth round each time. The four round speed strip returns the gun to a firing condition quicker, but with 20% less ammunition. The five round speed strip leaves the gun down longer during reloads, but at full capacity when brought back to target.

Summary: The limited capacity of the snub revolver does not negate its value as life support gear, nor its ability to accurately place rounds on target if the shooter can deliver. It does require an additional layer of deliberate planning and training for keeping it loaded and able to fight. Many shooters will consider concealment and convenience in the choice of reloads, without regard to performance. The information above may be helpful to them.

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Awesome post

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Thank you for taking the time to put this together and post this!

I for one am guilty of choosing my J frame reloads by convenience (speed strips) with less regard for the actual speed. I was thinking the other day after watching some video from the recent HITS (I think that was the class) that was posted here that I may need to rethink my choice.

The problem is, when I carry a J frame it is usually for the sake of concealability. To add traditional speed loaders, with their greater bulk, defeats the purpose in a t-shirt and shorts. I may have to experiment with some kind of belt pouch or kydex to see if I can find something that works for me.

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good stuff

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x2. Indeed.

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Very interesting. Figure out the inner tube riddle yet?

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Questions:

  1. HKS speedloaders use a “turn” knob, the other brand uses a spring-loaded button. Any speculation as to which might be the quickest? ( I have trouble using the spring-loaded type, so it’s a moot point for me).

  2. Any pointers on reloading without “stuff getting hung up”?

  3. Something I’ve always wondered: when you speed reload a revolver, are you trying to carefully reclose the cylinder to avoid even the possibility of bending the ejector rod, or do you just slam it home? The reason I ask this is because the times I’ve handled a Ruger SP101 I always looked at its ejector rod as somewhat fragile. I have actually seen a couple of these damaged on SP101’s at gun shows over the years. I carry a Smith 642 myself, so I’m not as concerned, but that’s one of those “fifty questions you’ve always wanted to ask about firearms but didn’t want to look like an idiot.”

  4. Given that guns like the J-frame have short ejector rods, you (mostly) have to assist getting the empties out even after plunging on the ejector. Any tips on doing this better?

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I prefer the Comp 1 to the HKS. The Comp 1 is smaller and needs only a little extra push when I seat the rounds. The HKS is larger, and needs a deliberate turn of a knob. I do like the extra play rounds have in the HKS when hunting for the charging holes.

  1. Any pointers on reloading without “stuff getting hung up”?

I’m a fan of these techniques. When used as instructed, the path to the cylinder is kept nice and open for cases to drop out, and loading devices to get in.
Reload, right handed shooter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjRTdXvjBmE
Reload, left handed shooter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjkmfOGSVH8

  1. Something I’ve always wondered: when you speed reload a revolver, are you trying to carefully reclose the cylinder to avoid even the possibility of bending the ejector rod, or do you just slam it home? The reason I ask this is because the times I’ve handled a Ruger SP101 I always looked at its ejector rod as somewhat fragile. I have actually seen a couple of these damaged on SP101’s at gun shows over the years. I carry a Smith 642 myself, so I’m not as concerned, but that’s one of those “fifty questions you’ve always wanted to ask about firearms but didn’t want to look like an idiot.”

I just push the cylinder straight back into window deliberately. Neither gently nor slamming it, just what it needs without worrying about it. Short of spinning the cylinder and flicking it shut with your wrist, I don’t think you’re going to do it any harm.

  1. Given that guns like the J-frame have short ejector rods, you (mostly) have to assist getting the empties out even after plunging on the ejector. Any tips on doing this better?

You can minimize stuck cases by keeping the charging holes clean and smooth. Use quality ammunition loaded in in decent brass at reasonable pressures. Strike the ejector rod deliberately while the cylinder is on the vertical with a clear airspace underneath. Given enough fouling, cases are going to hang so you may have to pick at them eventually no matter what.

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+1 for the Comp I.
The HKS requires both hands to actuate. One hand has to hold the cylinder still while the release knob is turned by the other.

You can minimize stuck cases by keeping the charging holes clean and smooth. Use quality ammunition loaded in in decent brass at reasonable pressures. Strike the ejector rod deliberately while the cylinder is on the vertical with a clear airspace underneath. Given enough fouling, cases are going to hang so you may have to pick at them eventually no matter what.

^ Good advice.

Suggest training with cases that -are- a little bit reluctant to come out of the cylinder (just bend the case mouths slightly).
Add emphasis to keeping the gun vertical (up) during the ejection stroke and vertical (down) for the loading motion.

Try to get the cylinder closed before passing about 45° on the way back to the threat. The rounds can start to slide back out of the chambers and complicate getting the gun going again.
If you have that one mastered already, try it while fighting from the ground.

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Interesting thread. I definitely agree with the idea of testing your assumptions, especially on something that can be glacially slow if you screw it up.

I use the method of two rounds, skip a space, then two rounds on a Bianchi speed strip. Chuck Haggard taught me that earlier this year, and it proved to be the fastest way for me to use a speed strip.

I like the Safariland speedloaders, as I am unable to find SL Variant models anywhere. I usually carry a speed strip in the watch pocket of my jeans. But I keep the Safariland speedloaders stashed everywhere - in the car, at home, in my backpacks and briefcases, and other strategic spots.

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All- Whether a snub enthusiast or explorer, consider taking a box of ammo to the range and trying different methods out for yourself. If you have a shot timer of some sort, consider adding your own data to the knowledge base here.

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HKS speedloader? Doing the twist is for Chubby Checker. I prefer Safariland Comp I/II’s, JetLoaders and SL Variants.

The ruger ejector rod is sturdy. I spanked the baby all weekend at HiTS with zero issues.

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Also consider never again loading a revolver directly from your box of ammunition. Instead, make a habit of putting cartridges in your loading device of choice and use the loader to charge the cylinder.

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I thought about trying this for myself but I’ll skip it after finding your results.

Thanks for doing this, you findings correlated with my guess about what my results would be. I dnot have the same speed loaders but I don’t think that would change anything.

I use speed strips for all my loading to build memory. I don’t think I will carry a speed loader they are pretty bulky. I’m looking into this currently because I want to leave the g19 (which i carry a spare mag and snub as 2nd) at home some days this summer and carry a snub iwb and a 2nd gun in pocket. I’d like to carry a reload for either the snub or the pocket pistol but not both. Then again I may just put a reload for each in my vehicle and carry a knife instead.

I’ll add that carrying a second gun isn’t just as a backup. It’s also another choice. I have yet to find a draw quicker than already having a firing grip on the gun.

Anyway right now im thinking reloading the pocket auto or drawing a knife should both be faster and easier than reloading the revolver. But the revolver has the accuacy and full-caliber advantages.Thoughts?

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Excellent thread thank you for posting! I’ve recently started training with my 642 again and have been toying with the hks speed loader. I need to snag some speed strips as I think they’re s better option for actual reload carry.

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Awesome thread and food for thought. I’ll never be as fast as he is in the video but agree with practicing loading with my two HKS speedloaders so if and when the time ever comes. Also makes me wonder about the reliability of the Taurus ejector rod-or should I say the durability after many fast reloads have been done?
Thanks for posting this!

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My formal firearms training is minimal but will share what caused my first on the range ass chewing. The weapon was S&W M-65. I was dumping empties into my hand instead of on the ground. Bad habit from saving brass for reloading. Anybody here making that mistake?

Remember that if you’re shooting one of the J frames in .357 and using .357 mag loads, the mag round is 1/10 inch longer and may be very prone to hanging up on the extractor star.

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Yea, If reloading is part of your plans it’s best to keep those chambers clean for best extraction.

Like you said especially with .357 ammo. Nickel plated casings help a little IMO. It’s something to be aware of. I don’t get Geco (German) .357 ammo anymore because extraction is often sticky. I would have to put the rod against a wood bench and push on the cylinder or smack it with a plastic mallet to get a casing out sometimes. The LCR ejector rod has held up. I think (I hope) I’ve used all of the Geco .357 I had. It’s also full power and kicks hard.

Geco’s .38 special LRN ammo is really pleasant to fire, easy to extract, pretty accurate and clean, too. Remington 110 gr SJHP is what I practice most of my .357 mag shooting with. (It’s not a full power load. Rated less velocity than the 125 gr and much less recoil/blast) Recoil is barely any more than .38 +p.

I got some .38 Short Colt (Or what Magtech calls “.38 Special Short”) ammo to see if the LCR extractor would push them all the way out. Nope! But damn near, they pop out real easy.

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Video? I wanna see! Link?

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Started my law enforcement career back in the revolver days. We went through the progression from dump pouches, to speed strips, to hks speed loaders. No doubt that speed loaders are much quicker, and generally eliminate dropped rounds.

It wasn’t uncommon for LEO’s to dump empties into their hand until a few were killed in shoot outs and found with the empties in their hand, and an empty gun. Training then changed to stress a straight cylinder dump onto the ground