We launched the Lightweight Carbon-Fiber handguard at SHOT this year, we are finalizing testing this week and expect to have finalized pricing and initial delivery information on our web site by June 1st.
Please note the production version will have a low profile front end cap, the end cap in the pictures are prototype.
They will be available in 4 basic lengths; Carbine, Midlength, Rifle Length and Extra-Long (15"). The tube is octogon shape with a 2inch"OD" across the flats, ID is 1.8inches. The weights are as follows (without rails or barrel nut)
•Weights
◦Carbine Length: 6.8oz
◦Midlength: 7.7oz
◦Rifle Length: 8.7oz
◦Extra Long (15”): 9.9oz
Other info
•Free Float Design - the aluminum receiver extension is precision machined to ensure a rigid connection
•Low profile, octagon shaped carbon-fiber tube, is as rigid and impact resistant as lightweight aluminum free float tube designs
•Available with or without cooling slots
•Cooling slots will accept accessory rail hardware
•Available with or without a picatinny rail at 12 o’clock
•Attachment points for quick-detach sling swivels at 3 and 9 o’clock
Pricing will vary based on length and rails. MSRP’s start around $225 (carbine with no rails) to $375 (15" with rail at 12 oclock)
Feel free to email me directly if you have any questions svilardi@lancer-systems.com or want info emailed to you when it is available.
Before rails, very few metal forearms existed. Since rails, the market has gone full retard, installing aluminum forearms on everything just because rails are cool. Forearms are to protect the shooter from hot barrels. Metal forearms aren’t much better than just holding the bare barrel.
The FAL StG58 had metal forearms and they get so hot during firing, guys were using oven mitts to protect their hand. Now, nearly all the FAL owners have replaced the metal StG handguards with either plastic or wood.
The PRI carbon fiber forearm on my AR gives good protection from a hot barrel. Last trip, the AR got so hot I couldn’t touch the barrel at all, yet the temperature of the forearm was still normal
Adding a metal heat shield to a metallic forearm may help some, but it makes the forearm heavier for no real gain in performance.
It’s past time to develop non-metallic forearms. We should have non-metallic rail sections, for attaching things like flashlights, as well
Don’t you want a rail system that are lighter, harder and low heat conductivity? Do you know aluminum has extremely good heat and electricity conductivity?
Over the long term you cannot argue the durability of aluminum. For me, ladder covers and gloves do a damned good job at taking care of the heat.
For the weight, I would like to see the weights of the Lancer tubes with the barrel nut and and a sling attachment. If I were to guess it will not be too much lighter than what we have now. That is not to say I would not get one, they look nice and are priced around the same as other rails, so they will be a viable option, just not for the reasons others mention.
I am well aware of the properties of aluminum BTW. What I am not fully aware of, simply because I do not use enough of it, is the hardness of carbon fiber, specifically the epoxy on the outside, what would be contacting everything. I don’t believe it is that hard, or close to anodized aluminum. Anyone have details?
I argue that aluminum is not an ideal material for making rail system. The fact that you need to wear gloves and to put rail covers already proven that.
I added 2.0 oz for the barrel nut. The way I read Lancer’s post is that the stated weight includes the aluminum piece that is permamently affixed to the tube, but not the nut that attaches that piece to the upper and replaces the stock barrel nut.
Doing that does make it heavier than the same-weight aluminum TRX Extreme, and the Troy weight includes the integrated top rail.
I don’t think we want to throw babies out with bathwater though, and there may yet be composites available, or ways of making composites, that will provide a better, lighter, more heat-resistant solution.
Just like the smooth-side, all it will take is the right company at the right time, the right selection of shills and spokespersons, and you’ll see every manufacturer scrambling for it. Is there a major manufacturer of rail systems right now that, post TRX Extreme, isn’t making a slick-side free-float system?
Larue
Daniel Defense
Samson
Midwest Industries
Knight’s Armament
Wilson Combat
and of course JP, YHM, Apex Tactical, and others that always have.
One guy will come up with the composite solution (and personally I don’t think it’s carbon fiber) that will work fantastically in this application and everyone will be scrambling to hire chemists instead of welders and machinists.
This is what bugging me the most, composite materials clearly have potentials but unbelievably the development of composite rail is still in its infancy. It is like there is no incentive to come up a better replacement than the current conventional aluminum rail systems. This goes for the whole arms industry, the innovations of this industry is extremely slow.
From the stand point of molded composites, a free float forearm is not a straight forward proposition. It would be QUITE difficult if not impossible to mold a forearm as a single unit. The finished product would require quite a bit of machining. Carbon fiber eats up machine tools quickly as it is very abrasive. Carbon fiber is also very conductive of electricity. Machining it creates a lot of dust which gets into places it should not go and causes problems for electronics and machines.
Most of the aluminum forearms on the market now, start off as an extrusion with a relatively small amount of machining required to finish the product. IF a company could come up with a way to injection mold a polymer forearm it could be profitable at a lower price point. Until that happens the products like the one posted by Lancer will be the rule rather than the exception. A simple tube with slots cut in it and rails bolted to it. Add an end for mounting to the weapon ( thats the hard part ) and you have a fore arm. The unique part about the one Lancer posted is that it is molded on an octagonal mandrel. Other than that it’s still just a tube.
I also believe that a carbon/Kevlar composite would be better suited to weapons as it is not as brittle and I believe it could stand up to the shock and vibrations better than carbon fiber alone.
I did not mean to imply that the Lancer product is the first composite free float fore arm. I’m saying that “composite” fore arms will all follow the same construction formula until someone comes up with an innovative way to mold tube and rails and mount in a single process. Molding composites is labor intensive and “with the exception of simple shapes” does not easily lend itself to mass production. The fabric has to be laid up in the mold by hand. Sometimes in multiple layers. Each lay up has the potential for errors. The product has to stay in the mold until it is cured. It is dimensionally unstable until initial curing is done. The list goes on and on.
In my opinion. The only way to break free from the current form factor of “composite” rails would be injection molded polymers.
There are some very touchy things you have to account for when dealing with CF.
CF is terrible for abrasion resistance.
CF (the polyester resin used to bind the carbon strands) is sensative to UV degredation.
CF (the resin again) is not a very good item where high heat is concerned.
I am also of the opinion that other options can/do exist instead of Aluminum. Right now AL is the best compromise of weight, strength and durability. But like the super 9 pistols polymer technology can and will catch up to that very quickly.
Imagine a polymer that could be molded over a chassis (think M&P/Glock/XD etc) and specifically engineered for a foregrip? Nice.
Has stress analysis been performed on your new carbon fiber handguard? Some companies wrap carbon fiber over various mediums with a claim of increased strength and weight savings without performing analysis to verify the strength of the part. Composite analysis is a relatively new and under utilized skill set that many lack even in the airplane industry.
I am excited to see your officially released product!
I understand your frustration. But if you look at this from an industrial culture, rather than and industrial stand point it starts to make some sense. The fire arms industry is full of people who work with metal. It’s what they know. They know how th extrude, cast, forge, machine and polish it to become a finished product. That is the box within which they work. There is a lot of inertia there and it will take a small innovative company or individual who does not have an engineer breathing down their neck to come up with something that will make the industry stop and take notice. Chance are that person wont know much about firearms either. Someone who sits at their computer and says “Box? What box?”. More than likely the initial drawing will be on a napkin.
Tennis Rackets have been built by (i.e. carbon fiber) composite materials for many many years. They are very good at absorption shocks and vibrations. They are very durable too.
A Molded composite handguard do not have to be one piece. Two pieces handguards are quite common.
