The most recent questions that I have fielded over here are as follows;
Don’t you have to have a Class III license to own suppressors and stuff?
Don’t you have to pay the $200.00 fee every year on your items?
Aren’t suppressors illegal for the average person?
Yes for my records I did, I also made a copy of his to show that the ownership changed.
So the $10,000 dollar question is, would most of the consumers (that are buying from a stranger) be ok with someone having all their personal info.
On top of that, if the NFA item is a firearm, a 4473 is supposed to be filled out (but not called into NICS). So how would a FTF (in state sale) be handled???
C4
I want to preface this by saying I agree 100% with the above.
However, something that I read on silencer talk but can’t find it currently was that any “crime of violence” where an NFA item is used carries additional federal minimum sentencing requirements. For example, a suppressor or full auto carries an additional 30 years. SBR carries 10 years. I googled and the portion of the law I see cited for this is (18 U.S.C. § 924(c)(1)). I believe that is part of the drug control act and is usually used in drug cases, but it seems the term “crime of violence” is pretty generic.
This implies that if a prosecutor can convince a jury that use of force was not justified, you could face the potential for serious additional prison time.
Does anyone know if this is true? I am not a lawyer and have no idea, but would love to know more about this from anyone in the know, and dispel this if it indeed is a myth.
The othe key part that plays a role in all of this is if there is a Castle Doc. in place. Ohio has one. So the burden (if they are in my home) is pretty much off the homeowner.
C4
Check this out http://www.justice.gov/olc/2009/semiautomatic-weapons.pdf
Prior to 1994, section 924(c)(1) provided as follows:
“Whoever, during and in relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime . . . uses or carries a firearm, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such crime . . . , be sentenced to imprisonment for five years, and if the firearm is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun to imprisonment for ten years, and if the firearm is a machinegun, or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, to imprisonment for thirty years.”
Follow the link and there’s 14 pages of fun stuff to read.
4473 is a requirement for someone licensed under GCA. Virginia has legal private sales.
No, it’s still on you and it’s still an affirmative defense. The “castle doctrine” just means you have no duty to retreat in your own home and every state has that in some form or another at this point - it doesn’t shift the onus to the prosecution to prove you weren’t justified. It doesn’t work that way anywhere. If you deliberately kill another human being, you have the burden of proving it was justified.
Same story with all of these “make my day” and “civil immunity” laws and so forth. If you actually read them, they say that you’re not liable if you were justified based upon a list of criteria - you still have to prove that you satisfy those criteria, which means you can still be sued and you still have to go through discovery, and possibly even trial, to show that the law even applies to your case. So basically they add nothing of practical value to the law as it already existed.
There is a 99.999999% chance you will be dealing solely with state court if you’re involved in a shooting, so this charge would never even be an option as it applies only in federal court.
That said, there are plenty of state laws out there that they could use to stack you if they decide you committed a crime. “Use of a firearm in the commission of a felony” or something similar as an additional charge. You can’t get caught up with those possibilities. Worry about making good decisions about whether to use force, not the minutiae of what crimes they could stack on you.
Ya I guess since it is a used NFA weapon it would need to have a 4473 filled out and stored.
I am just kind of cautious when dealing with the ATF and what they can later come back and say that you did something wrong (in regards to paper work).
C4
I understand what you are saying, but in Ohio, it was more of a “last resort” type defense. I have retreated to the farthest position in my home and have no other choice, but to pull the trigger. The intruder also had to have a weapon.
I now no longer have to retreat and the intruder doesn’t have to have a weapon.
C4
I’m an 01 and just assumed the 4473 I filled out from my c3 was to assist in removing the item from his aquisition books (tranferor’s transaction #) since the nfa forms provided the actual changing of ownership & background check.
Not 100% sure what TX law states on private / person to person NFA transfers…will check
Thanks Grant! Good read, and you cleared up some of the “Myths” I have heard too .
everyone tells me "They can search your house at any time "crap
I sold a suppressor to an out of state buyer. Asked the question here, and was told that I could f4 it to the buyer’s out of state c3. Spoke with two different nfa examiners and they confirmed it. With receipt of approved f4, I shipped it to the buyer’s out of state c3, with complete 2way comms beforehand.
Yep (on already transfered items).
The question I have though is, wouldn’t it be cheaper for a C3 to take posession of the NFA item and fill out the paper work to the ATF and not pay the additional $200 transfer fee as the seller? Of course, the C3 dealer is going to charge you a transfer fee, but don’t think it would be anywhere close to $200.
C4
How would the c3 take posession of the nfa item from my trust without a f4 transfer?
Well I have never purchased an NFA item that has already been form 4’d. My guess though is that I would just do a form 3.
C4
Two blocks on a Form 3 ask for Transferee’s and Transferor’s name as it appears on the FFL.
Yes, that’s legal in Indiana too. I’ve privately sold personal NFA items. The buyer fills out a F4 and when it’s approved, I got the stamp and called them and told them we could meet to give them their new shit.
I’m not a dealer.