As an NFA dealer with a shop in rural Ohio, I get some of the most ignorant comments under the sun about the ownership of NFA items. On top of this, I am seeing more and more people on the errornet post things that just arent true.
So let’s discuss some of the myths associated with NFA ownership. I will start some and you guys can add to them. Maybe we can form a collective list and just point noobs to it.
No the Govt cannot search your property if you own an NFA item. They would still need a search warrant.
The Govt already knows you own firearms. So no, owning an NFA item doesn’t clue them in that you have weapons (put the tin foil hat away).
Putting NFA items in a business or trust is 100% legal and legit with the ATF!
The majority of the States in the Union allow NFA items.
Yes, NFA items are legal for you to own (as long as your State says so).
Yes, you have to use a C3 dealer in your State to transfer an NFA item (NEW NFA items and out of State Transfers).
One area that I have heard a lot of differing opinions are regarding the use of an NFA item (whether suppressor or SBR) in what would be considered a justified self defense situation. My question is would it be legal if the use of force was justified or are our NFA items strictly for fun at the range?
Generally speaking, there is no restriction on the use of NFA items for self-defense purposes. I say generally speaking because there are 50 states in this country all with their own set of laws…and I certainly don’t pretend to know them all. Such items very well may be and are regulated for hunting purposes (in many places, you can’t use a suppressed weapon for hunting certain types or all types of game).
Honestly I haven’t seen a lot of differing opinions on whether or not NFA items are legal for SD…what I have seen is conjecture about how the use of, for example, a full-auto SBR with a can might appear to a jury if you were to go to trial, or fears of being painted as a wanna-be Rambo by an overzealous prosecutor.
It is either a “good shoot” or it is not. The silly arguments about using extra evil NFA items in a defensive situation are about as stupid as the people who think if you use hollow point ammo you will be portrayed as a stone-cold mad killer.
DocMolar, please understand I don’t direct the words “silly” and “stupid” toward you.
Good post, Grant. Please add to the list that Trust and corp transfers exist because NFA is based on tax law. The instructions on the Form 4 even states these are legal entities to own NFA items. And, no, the ATF can’t change that law! They can’t offer a decision or opinion about it either. So, the idiots who preach that the ATF is going to “close the Trust loophole” are completely mistaken. I’ve seen people state that items held by a Trust would be confiscated. Um, NO.
Great information Bookhound and Palmguy thanks, Thinking about it more carefully its true what Palmguy is saying that it is not so much the legality but the "conjecture about how the use of, for example, a full-auto SBR with a can might appear to a jury if you were to go to trial, or fears of being painted as a wanna-be Rambo by an overzealous prosecutor. " Great thread OP I think there’s a lot to learn here. Thanks all!
It’s really important that the Trust be set up properly based on the laws of the particular state one resides in. I’ve seen some good info on guntrustlawyer.com and articles by Mark Barnes (?) in Small Arms Review.
Just to expound on what I wrote earlier about evil NFA items…I’m firmly in the camp that a good shoot is a good shoot. I just looked back at my post and realize it may not have been clear.
To the topic of the OP, it really is amazing that even in relatively pro-gun circles, the idea that NFA items are not legal for civilian possession is pretty pervasive. I’ve heard “but you can’t own a silencer…” more times than I can count…from people that own guns. The next inevitable question is usually “why would anyone need one of those?”…
I don’t know OH laws but in VA an individual can sell and then after getting the Form 4 back approved a NFA item to another resident of VA without a Class 3 dealer aka FFL/SOT. [Example: A few years ago I sold a suppressor (owned by my Trust ) to a friend of mine who also is a VA resident w/o involving a FFL/SOT].
New sales of NFA items and transfers of NFA items coming in from other states do require a FFL/SOT.
Most states’ laws are set up such that no dealer or other paperwork is required to transfer a Title I firearm between residents, and then they just have simple blanket laws that make it unlawful to own all/most NFA items unless it’s properly registered per the NFA. Some states of course single out particular items that you cannot own in any case.
I have never seen a state law that addresses transfers of NFA items in any way that’s different than Title I firearms. Not to say that there isn’t one, but I’ve just never heard of a state where you can freely sell Title I firearms between residents but must go through a dealer for NFA stuff.
I did a form 4 transfer of a machine gun on a private sale here in Florida (I purchased the weapon). It was approved by ATF no problem. This was on an individual sale. Yes it can be done. The 200 transfer tax still applies to the buyer, not the seller. There is no sales tax. Figure that one out.
I think a lot of these myths pervade the pro-gun crowd as well. My uncle, who owns and shoots a Bushmaster twice a year, swears by his compact Kimber 1911 for EDC and in general would define himself as a “gun guy” was at my house yesterday.
We started talking about me wanting to purchase a suppressor and his eyes bugged out a little and he said something along the lines of “We’d all like to own one but they’ll put you in jail for having one.”. At that point in time I showed him my SBR and the tax stamp that makes it legal to own one and he had a really puzzled look as I’m sure he’d never heard of such a thing. I think this is fairly typical of the average self proclaimed “gun guy” and they get most of their information from Bubba gun stores, off of the TV set and the movie screen. It’s amazing what happens if you crack open a book or do a little research on a particular subject, like NFA weapons.
Yes he also used a trust and send in his stuff. When his Form 4 was approved it was mailed to me, once I received it he then met me at my house and I handed him his suppressor and Form 4.
