Hey all. First real post around here.
I am wondering if anyone has any experience with this outfit? I am looking to take my first entry level carbine course and these guys are in my area. I have searched extensively on this site but have found no mention of them.
Thanks for any info!
-Stuffel
Have no clue about them. I can recommend Jeff Gonzales of http://www.tridentconcepts.com/. He is top notch, former Navy SEAL and Gunsite instructor and in Austin. Also Paul Howe and Jim Smith of Spartan Tactical are in TX (more towards DFW) IIRC.
He’s a PDN Guy
Heard great things about these guys but have yet to find the time to do a class.
Please excuse my acronym idiocy but please elaborate. There ought to be an acronym sticky around here. Not a stranger to the world but just a different line of work (wildfire.)
Thanks,
-Stuffel
I think Smash means Personal Defense Network. Craig Douglas of Shivworks will be in your area in March for an ECQC course. I highly recommend that instead.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I as well, Craig is one hell of a instructor.
Get in ECQC. It’ll radically change your perception of training.
Mr Douglas of Shivworks (do web searches on Southnarc) is an excellent instructor, and is highly recommended by many people.
His MUC (Managing Unknown Contacts) class is a terrific class for anyone to take.
Thanks for the info!
-Stuffel
Like sadmin said, it stands for Personal Defense Network, which in turn means that they’re influenced by Rob Pincus’s Combat Focus Shooting curriculum. Ironically, given the suggestions for ECQC, I’ve met one of the instructors, Vernon Lee, multiple times through Shivworks classes; he wrote about one of the Shivworks classes for Recoil in an online article, in fact. I have taken their one of their two day pistol courses (here is my AAR); overall, I think CWS offers some useful training, at least on the pistol side of things; there’s definitely some things I disagree with them on on the technical side of things (which I suspect many here will, because of the CFS influenced curriculum), but they have a great mindset, with an emphasis on having a broad skillset, such having the ability to do low-light stuff, vehicle work, medical skills, etc.
Something to think about is that ECQC is very different from an intro carbine course. ECQC definitely caused a huge paradigm shift in my self-defense thinking (here is my AAR for that class). I would definitely suggest that over any other class if your primary concern is practical self-defense. But the carbine is certainly fun, and can still potentially be useful in extraordinary circumstances. Something to consider is on intro type courses is, how much can really go wrong? You will be learning the basics of carbine stuff, so going with an outfit that isn’t the most cutting edge isn’t a huge deal, IMO. Just learning the basic manipulations and trigger control stuff, so if the instructors are sound, even if they don’t have a super-sexy background, you’ll still learn the basics just fine, and for that, I think CWS would probably be fine. If you’re deadset on big name instructors, just watch the course announcement subforum, or consider driving up to Nacogdoches for Paul Howe.
Y’all are certainly convincing me of the ECQC class being money better spent. I will admit that part of my want of a carbine class was the fun factor.
Does ECQC usually include CCW manipulation/deployment?
Not so much on manipulation but deployment under the best circumstances you can replicate. It will, like others said, change your training paradigm like a light switch. Not making light of carbine classes or even good pistol classes but it’s amazing. You will just wait for ECQC, Paul Sharp and Cecil Burch to come along every year. Search for ECQC/Shivworks on YouTube to get an idea. Oh and congrats on the knife you haven’t bought yet. 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, I’d recommend you use your carry setup for the live fire portion
Take ECQC. Most important class I’ve taken.
If you’re a civilian, a carbine class is the least of your worries.
Plus one for Paul Sharp and Cecil Burch. Both are excellent trainers, and terrific guys. For bonus points, bring Cecil a milkshake from Braum’s. 
Question for the group: Is http://www.fast762.com teaching classes this year down near Austin? I read that Keenan was on a contract, training folks for a while and was very busy. Is he back to open enrollment again? His pistol low light class is great.
Stuffel - he also comes very highly recommended.
Let me do some more digging. I have some friends that know people in Austin. I can check out some leads and get back to you. I am honestly a big fan of quality local trainers when you start out. Instead of one very expensive class in a year’s time, you can fit in 2-4 classes, with the reduced travel budget. Then build from there.
And there are some really awesome Alias trainers coming to Texas this year - Kyle Defoor and Frank Proctor just to name two. Obviously, both are superb with pistols and carbines.
LOL - you have a wealth of choices, huh?
Edited to add: I goofed up - Mr Defoor is not with Alias. But it is a terrific opportunity to train, if you can get in his classes. I’m working on my skills and gear to take his Precision Rifle class. I’m very eager to take that class.
He’s got a 2-day pistol class in Dallas in March - not a long drive at all.
Glad I stumbled across this thread, you guys have sold me on the ECQC class.
Unfortunately, no. Speaking with Kenan over Christmas via email, he said this:
I’m happy for Kenan, sucks for us civilians. From the way he told it, he really did get shafted many times doing open enrollment classes, as he did not have a proper prepayment scheme set up. Hell, in my class, there was suppose to be 6 students; final tally was just me and one other guy (which was awesome for us two, not so much for Kenan). Kenan was a great instructor, and hopefully he’ll get back into civilian courses eventually.
And for those of y’all who’re now sold on ECQC, check out Craig’s forum: http://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum. It’s definitely much smaller than M4Carbine or many of the other forums, and subsequently less active, but there’s a wealth of information on there (including Cecil Burch and Paul Sharp). Definitely a very different place compared to your typical firearms forum.
Agreed, I am happy for his success. I do hope to be able to take some classes from him in the future. Please pass on my regards.
Let me pose another question.
After talking with the wife (mistake:)) about course cost etc. We mutually decided it was either I seek out a shorter training such as the ECQC or a Krav gym membership. I am leaning towards the Krav with the plan to take a more intensive class later. Do y’all think this is a wiser approach? My thoughts being that Krav will build self defense/fitness and basics over the long term which can then be applied later to more specialized training.
Thanks,
-Stuffel