I’m about to lay down a whole heap of cash on an LMT 308MWS but I’ve come to a sticking point on the optic which may scupper the sale.
At this time, I have zero interest (if you’ll excuse the pun) on tight groupings beyond 300m. If I hit a chest-sized area at 400m+ I’m a happy bunny (knowing the target would be on his arse in RL).
So I’m not looking at what I would call a ‘sniper scope’ affair. What I’m after is a compact ‘combat’ optic for range work sub 300m.
I’m in the UK, so ACOGs are out of the question. One; because they end up at twice/three times the price of those sold in the US and two; because they’re only (from the dealers I’ve approached) sold to Mil/Police agencies. Ironically, I’m actually in HM Forces but that cuts no dice with UK dealers; I’m purchasing privately, therefore: ‘no sale to civvies’. :mad:
Anyway… my ideal scope for the MWS would be a TA11E. Failing that, a SpecterDR 1-4. Even if I could buy an ACOG here, I’d gladly blow the $3,000+ USD asking price. I’m waffling again. (And you’ve just fallen off your chair laughing at the price).
What I’d like to ask for here is recommendations for a rugged combat optic (for 7.62mm) which will equate to the performance of the ACOG/SpecterDR but without the price tag or ITAR restrictions.
Reticle must be simple as per the ACOG. I hope these guys don’t mind me hotlinking to their image:
Any suggestions welcome.
[Edit]: I forgot to add, I’m not a big fan of red dots, doughnut or horseshoe type. Chevron/crosshair if possible.
I don’t see anything wrong with some of the low power variables out there like the Swaro Z6i, S&B, Leupolds, and SWFA products. They were all built well and with rough handling in mind.
If you can get the Browe, that would be a good way. I’ve been wanting one for a while, but I have a .308 platform build in progress right now that is taking up my money (in addition to ammo for my ARs and practice).
Export restrictions due to the tritium vials. So, no, ACOGs cannot be shipped as we know them. I am wondering if the new batter powered one will fall into the same category though.
Yes they can but certain models are restricted…or should I say models with certain reticles. That being said I’ve seen TA01NSN, TA31F, RCO models abroad both in the hands of dealers and civilians. Probably a Scandinavian dealer would be your best bet.
Both the OS and DR models of Elcan are available within the UK about 1250 and 1800 pounds respectively. The come in both the chevron or cross hair reticles with B.D.C. for either 5.56 or 7.62.
Personally I’m inclined toward variable powered optics but if you wanted a fixed power alternative and although it was discontinued there are still a few US Optics SN12 around, though I’m not sure if they are ITAR restricted. I’ve only ever seen one it seemed nice enough if some what large and to be honest buying an optic sight unseen is probably more trouble than it is worth especially if something goes wrong it is better to have a local agent.
Kind of curious you said you were buying a LMT in the U.K., I was under the impression that semi auto rifles in the U.K. were a no go.
I am not sure if this has been mentioned but is it ACOGs with tritium or just ACOGS in general because I know that Trijicon has an LED version of the ACOG that retails for 930-1200 USD… I do not know if you have considered this or not. Or is this is what the pervious poster was indicating, I am also not sure of the cost overseas. Best of luck and I hope it works out for you.
Thanks to all for the help so far. I don’t hink the Browe is an option at this point in time. I also don’t think I could put something so hideous on a 308MWS!
They may be my only option… but oh, that price. FFS… :rolleyes: Was that at LanTac?
Kind of curious you said you were buying a LMT in the U.K., I was under the impression that semi auto rifles in the U.K. were a no go.
Alas, it’s a ‘straight pull’. I shudder to think what the next knee-jerk reaction from our anti-gun political masters will be… but that’s another thread.
Thanks. It’s a frustrating situation as you can imagine. I can import (via dealer) a hard-hitting, all-singing, all-dancing 7.62mm battle rifle but I can’t get my desired piece of glass for it!
The other thing I was thinking of if you want to go a bit old school was a cheaper Hensoldt optic from ebay. It has a post reticle which can be an acquired taste, but it is more adjustable than the ACOG and OS and DR ELcans for differing circumstances.
The old TA01Cs and Ta11s are available here in New Zealand so I imagine that somewhere closer to home will have them.
Got your PM, thanks - very useful. I’ll look into those sites tomorrow.
You know, I’m actually now leaning towards the Elcan. I might just ‘be different’ and I think it’ll compliment the MWS’ slab-sided lines very well. I know that’s not a good reason (at all) to buy an optic but I suppose the DRs do have a good rep, despite being heavy. Was the ‘change in POI’ thing ever sorted or was it a myth?
Yeah I actually was looking at one a few weeks ago and it seemed pretty neat, it’s a 4x32 , I was told by another M4 member that they actually made this model to get around the export import crap. Keep us updated.
It’s the TA-02 I believe , but its for a 5.56
I believe the Swarovski Z6i with BRT will fill your needs. Not sure about Euro pricing but they are made over there. I plan to buy another one when my LaRue .308 arrives.
I agree. There was one in use at the carbine class I attended last week-end and the user made great use of it, said it didn’t slow him down compared to his T1, and the glass was absurdly clear. It was almost like it was an empty tube, except it looked crisper than that.
The jury is out on that type of scope but thanks for the suggestion. Cost-wise, I might as well just push the boat out for the DR.
Does anyone know of any positive reviews of the SpecterDR 1-4? All I’m finding is constant whining about POI shift between 1x and 4x and that it regularly loses zero.
I’m inclined just to get a ‘UK legal’ SpecterDR and be done with it… but I’m not feeling confident about its capabilities. An in-depth video review, concentrating on the reticle and sight picture would go a long way to alaying any doubts.
I don’t have a link, but IIRC current DRs are pretty solid and some of the 1-4 issues were the user not properly zeroing (something along the lines that you have to zero both).
I know this is all third hand, just suggesting you keep digging.
I’m sorry I don’t have any advice for your topic but you being from the UK, there’s something I’ve always wanted to know and maybe you can answer that for me - what IS the color of the boathouse at Hereford???
You’ll still shoot close to a NTCH with the M4. The eye relief isn’t much longer than an ACOG.
Reticle is similar to a TA01 in that there are thick outer stadia and a fine central crosshair. The center dot illumination is very bright and the full reticle illumination can be useful for low light shooting. It doesn’t light up as bright as the single dot, which is good because it would be useless at that bright of a setting.
ARMS levers suck. Period.
External windage/elevation adjustments are a personal dislike of mine. I’ve seen Elcan M145’s break and lose zero all the time and also seen small debris (sand, mud) get lodged under the elevation wheel and prevent it from adjusting during zeroing. I made my SAW gunner take his off and run an M68. That’s how much I hate Elcan’s.
I’ve seen the SpecterDR’s break off of their mount entirely as well as many broken ARMS levers.
If you want to put the money into it, go ahead. But be warned they aren’t anywhere near as rugged as an ACOG. The only people I know who are infatuated with them only use them at the range casually or are obsessed with building Block II clones. A few friends of mine who are Rangers have actually went back to just using their old EOTech’s…and that’s saying something.
