I believe there is a lot of truth to what Renegade posted based on owning the older, and current Colts. Like him, I bought a 6520 in 2008 for $1400 IIrc. The 6920s were the same price at that time as well. When they starting ditching the removable carry handles, and dropped the 6520 was when I started to notice differences that didn’t appeal to me in the new Colt models. Replacing those carry handles with Magpul sights is an example of this. They have always been known to have a lackluster rep for finish on their rifles.
ETA: I bought a 6520 lower by itself that was so damn purple that I used Alumhyde to refinish it…and ultimately just sold it off. The purple ano admittedly drives me crazy.
That’s just the point. Colt went to all that trouble to alter parts to make it difficult, and I don’t think it was ever a “thing.” I think Colt’s lawyers just convinced them “you better do X, Y, and Z so somebody can’t convert it to a machine gun.” Nobody else ever took steps like Colt; it was just the politically correct thing to do. Make the horsey a gelding, I guess.
Never bothered me. I think I have one of those Colts. I say “think” because I just don’t care. Ammo goes in one end, comes out the other. It’s the reason I bought it.
Lawyers have ruined a number of great firearm products just in my time dealing with them.
It doesn’t even need to be a firearm, BAD Inc’s BAD-ASS ST had a “lawyer pin” added to it on behest of their lawyers so that you couldn’t install it in lowers that didn’t have specific 45 throw markings. Therefore we all had to take a dremill to a brand new part which was a terrible option.
Quality, in relation to AR’s, mean proper material, proper assembly, acceptable accuracy, and a reputation for reliability. At least that’s what it means in my opinion. Colt has a reputation for checking those boxes. My recommendation for AR newcomers over the past several years has been to get either a Colt 6920 or a BCM standard mid length, and it still is.
You have taken a shine to an exceedingly high quality product. The OEM series Colts are not something I see continuing forever at or near the price they are now. I don’t think we will see the end tomorrow by any stretch, but its coming.
For the individual who “tore into Colt”, I would be interested in hearing what he considered to be quality rifle. The consensus of the comment may be absolute in your FB group, but for real world persons who deal with weapons on a regular basis, it is most certainly not. It isn’t even a little close to accurate.
FN does make many M16 and M4s, but it has nothing to do with quality levels and everything to do with pricing. Persons who have never spent any time involved in weapon procurement can only rely on hear say, but for those of us who have, it is a very cut throat world. Bidding is kept a very close secret, and industrial espionage is alive and well. There is a lot of money to be made with weapons, and there are many a variety of ways to do it in the GOV world.
Colt has long been a standard in the commercial firearm world for AR15s since the 70s and 80s (earlier than the 70s ammunition for the M16 had given it a bad rep). If you tell someone you own a Colt, they know you own a quality firearm. The exception to this are a few vocal imbeciles prancing about on the internet with little skills or knowledge base.
If you post on that FB group often, ask what company makes a better AR15, and ask for a few different examples.
Facebook gun groups for the most part are cancer. When I see the Colt and BCM bashing take place I always assume it’s someone with an Anderson who couldn’t afford anything other than a $500 rifle and talking down to people who buy rifles of known quality helps them feel better about their choices.
One thing I’ve noticed is that the poors are always the most emotionally invested in their purchase. It might be because they probably had to eat nothing but one pack of ramen a day for 6 months to be able to save a few hundred bucks to get a rifle. I won’t even comment on a post where someone is bashing Colt or others that build proper rifles because I don’t give a shit if they choose to shoot a low QC commercial gun. I just keep scrolling. They go on these internet crusades defending their budget guns as if someone has insulted their mothers. I don’t get it.
I’m not sure where you are going with the above, because you are correct only on a highly slanted scale.
Fit and finish is regards to function is not what people are crying about on the internet. They use the terms without even a generic understanding, and instead apply to to coloring, as well as dents and scratches.
I’m not sure what parts you are envisioning here, are you talking about upper to lower fit, because the allowable gap is massive. Guys crying and whining because their takedown pins are hard to push out, or they have detected a wobble between upper and lower have no idea that milspec is a very generous term, and so are the measurements that go along with it for unimportant things like these.
2 (cont). If you are talking about internal parts, Colt has zero issues, and never really has in any capacity I’m aware of. Every company has had a minor issue here or there, but Colt has always had extremely solid internals. You just don’t hear much if any crying over that.
Finish? You’ve got to be kidding, because once again, the functional finishes and treatments are something Colt has had down pat for a very long time. That doesn’t mean Joe Blow may not open his Colt AR box and find a transfer of a material on his anodizing, or even that an external part had a dent, but that has nothing to do with functionality of the weapon. Colt has made their money since the 70s by building weapons similar to that of the combat troop. If you think for a minute that actual issued weapons would meet the arfcom clown squads of “blem” warrior standards, you would have to be addled more than a little.
It is easy to tell who served in the gun carrying military and who did not when threads like this pop up. Crunchy-ticky triggers? Like the ones that come on the military weapons? Again, I have to shake my head with most of this. While everyone wants a wonderful trigger, it doesn’t work that way when you get assigned a weapon, and unlike the internet, you don’t get to swap in parts to make it the way you want.
Its probably more important to remember that Colt is in a very heavily liberal area, and is forced to deal with issues many other place would never see. Marty Daniels down in GA is met with a heroes welcome for bringing a firearm plant to an area. In MA, they would be protesting and probably sabotaging the work at night, or trying to block work with illegal protests.
That’s not what majority mean when they talk about fit and finish. It’s mostly about superficial stuff. does the brand new firearm have any handling marks maybe a little scratches or scuffs mark. Why is there a visible gap between the upper and the lower. many people believe that should not be visible and believe it effects function because its a por fit.
Sometimes you read a person’s complaints and wonder if they actually took a magnifying glass to the outside of the firearm
Well stated. If they aren’t backing up myself, squad, family, or friends, it makes no difference to me what people want to attempt to justify. They can buy and use whatever they want, it makes no difference. It isn’t until lies start vomiting from their keyboards and causing new people confusion that it makes any sense to reply.
Just a data point on fit-and-finish, my LE prefix 6920 OEM bought little over a year ago is immaculate on finish. No dings, mars, mismachining, etc. I’ve handled a bunch of others in stores and have not seen fit/finish issues. I don’t know if Colt got better on this or just luck of the draw, but I haven’t seen any fit-and-finish issues.
Before 6920s became so cheap I would use LMT complete lowers and build the upper I wanted out of Daniel Defense components. (Actually, that was after my lower building phase). I don’t bother anymore. Just start with a Colt.
When it’s all said and done, it’s a bit moot regarding FN as you can’t buy them as bought by the government anyway. And their commercial ARs, while they look nice, are no bargain, and seem to have a significant percentage of commercially sourced parts on them. To me they are not worth the premium over a Colt.
When Colts had less dealer distribution and were $1500-1800 for a basic carbine, there was a semi legit argument that you were paying for a name. Or probably more accurately, a very restricted distributor/dealer not.
But Colt has come down in price and DD, BCM, and LMT have all gone up significantly in price.
I view the Colt bashing as largely misinformed noise. I have friends who do it, I just ignore them. The other thing is I’ve come to appreciate the 6920 as designed. I put a cast off military carry handle on it, dialed it in, and just enjoy shooting it exactly as it is.
Colt has been outsourcing much of their production since they filed bankruptcy. If you buy a newer Colt it may not be %100 factory manufactured. I’m not saying it will be any lesser quality, just not a completely factory manufactured rifle. I have several older production Colts all pre 2010 and haven’t had any issues.
Uh no. First off, FN is the primary producer of the MILSPEC weapons for the last few years. They are built to the same TDP. More recently contracts were awarded where they were split between Colt and FN.
Those Colt changes you allude to, were done to help keep civilian sales open by appeasing to politicians, the state of CT and BATFE. If you look closely all of those changes were done to make the civilian weapons mostly incompatible with military and LE parts/guns.
Once again, no. Colt outsourced certain rifles like the Expanse garbage as a way to compete against other trash vendors making AR’s. 6920’s and others are made at the factory in CT. It may also shock people to learn that Colt only makes a few major components in house. The rest of it is subcontracted to vendors who make certain products and have done so for a long time.
Thanks for that clarification. I can live with cosmetic defects, since my weapons get pretty banged around as it is when I use them and I do not baby them, so they get that “lived in” look no matter how perfect they are out of the box in terms of the finish. Fitment issues, to me, are a whole 'nuther can of worms.
IRAQGUNZ, if a Colt rifle is made by COLT and stamped “Hartford” like these…are they fully mil-spec in compliance with the TDP?