In the service, did they expect you to get your AR white glove clean? Did you spend hours every day cleaning?
Yes. Complete waste of time.
Looking back with everything I know now, it sure was a waste of time. We would clean the coatings right off the bolt stupid it was very stupid.
Yes they did and as others have pointed out it was a waste of time. The company “armorer”/supply clerk (they were supply clerks by MOS, not armorers) would inspect your weapon when you would turn it in. Not exactly a “white glove test” but very close and a waste of time.
Yep. They would take a fresh q-tip and run it in all the little crevices. If there was any black at all you had to go clean it again.
That wouldn’t be so much of a problem except the cleaning supplies were half ass USGI kits with a limited supply of pipe cleaners. People would spend 4 hours wasting their time and stripping the finish off the parts wiping it so much so often. If you ever wonder why half the photos you see show the barrel almost bare metal its because people are forced to spend hours on useless maintenance.
The best was in Kuwait after a range we cleaned guns, and during the inspection a dust storm rolled through. People still got bitched at for having dusty weapons in a dust storm…:rolleyes: ‘Make sure you go back and clean all that dust off that weapon…’ 
I don’t miss that shit at all.
Yes but if you look at all the useless maintenance and figure that if you could get a rifle very clean while not in a combat zone just think how fast and good you cleaned it while in a combat zone. It may have been dusty or sand in certain crevices but you could depend on it to throw that lead at the enemy. waste of time maybe but remember the military has a reason for everything. Even if we don’t understand it.
I’ll echo what everyone else has said, I have, I do and I will continue to clean my issued rifle to the chrome or til the blueing is worn off, because that’s what is expected. It’s bullshit plain and simple. Just wish some of the money spent on a new rifle for us could be spent on new doctrine regarding the firearms we already use. Most of the stuff is outdated from when there was still wood in the stocks.
So, how come all you guys who knew better didn’t take the initiative to educate your units on what proper weapons maintenance really is? Maybe an issue of rank, but if you’re a well respected NCO with a good reputation your words should carry weight and at least be considered.
I was able to change my unit’s standards on weapons maintenance after a thorough and effective presentation.
The essence of it was this:
Before turn in, all weapons would be free of dirt, sand, mud, and all FOD.
Carbon buildup, however, would simply be wiped off with an oily rag. No scraping was allowed. No knives scraping carbon off the bolt etc. After being wiped down internally and externally, the weapons would be heavily lubricated and turned in. Not white glove clean by any means.
Each time the weapon was broken down for wipe down, each soldier would perform a PMCS, check the gas rings, extractor, bolt lugs, and cam pin area etc.
All magazines were numbered and checked for function. Non-functioning magazines were discarded and taken out of circulation.
Upon drawing the weapons from the arms room, they would again be checked by each soldier to ensure they were still heavily lubricated before being fired.
Every soldier was required to carry a bottle of CLP to maintain heavy lubrication during a course of fire.
That’s it. Simple and effective.
After this ranges started running way more smoothly because weapons were not going down all the time due to extraction issues mostly. The upper level leadership was convinced because the improvements were tangible. The trend continued throughout the deployments and we had very few weapons maintenance issues M4 wise.
No matter who you are or what your rank is, if you see something being done wrong it is YOUR responsibility to fix it.
Part of the reason being you never know when that rifle is going to get racked and never used again, maybe shipped off to some depot. Not a good reason. I’ve seen Joes take the Parkerizing off of the barrel with a bore brush and other pointless exercises.
I agree with that. I in fact accomplished the same thing as you stated. I feel that so much time and effort is taken to white glove a weapon system that the pmcs is overlooked. Which in my opinion was the most important. Mags especially. My snipers learned this instantly. I would replace a small defective part in the rifles on command maintenance day. Tell them to go clean em and if they missed it they had Hell to pay. I think the ball was dropped once.
I just got back from AT and the supply NCO was going as far as to make everyone take a scraper to the crown of the muzzle inside the A2 Birdcage because there was carbon build up. Mine was not done. I waited till 2100 to take it back to them when the rifles absolutely had to be in because they where packing the trucks for home.
Until Army Doctrine is changed. The same maintenance practices will continue and will negatively effect weapons usable service life.
jesus… that just sounds like needless abuse of taxpayer owned property. :rolleyes:
wipe it down and lube it up. snap the dustcover shut and call it a day.
very nice… glad to see we’ve got a few gun guys out there in bureaucrat-land to keep things running smooth.
I only had to take it to that level at basic training. Ever since it’s been get the big chunks off, lube it and move on.
+1 Yes, as stated, a complete waste of time. Guns were being Q-tipped with CLP even when not being shot. :suicide2:
I just spent 3 hours today doing exactly that with my unit. The armorers were butthurt that we didn’t care about minuscule amounts of carbon inside the bolt carrier.
The real kicker - NONE of the weapons we had have been fired in the last 6 months since we checked them out.
Tried while I was armorer, not a supply guy stuck in there but an actual armorer, then later after moving to a line platoon and getting some stripes.
Enlisted corp liked the ideas and wanted to impliment.
West Point trained CO and XO asshats had other ideas based on the trained into them idea that they were gods and we were peons.
CO being the CO and XO being the arms room officer with the ear of the CO does not leave a lotta swing room for policy changes, especially when there’s weak platoon sgts and/or a 1sgt involved who won’t stand up for a good plan because it might rock the boat too much.
These officers would be the same engineer graduates who don’t know that water is the only substance to expand when frozen, and will call you a stupid shithead in front of everyone for you not knowing it because they were taught as much at a prestigious academy instead of some shithole backwoods high school like everyone else.
I guess they never had to experience it themselves in the northeast winters at academy when pipes would burst, as the NCO’s would have it fixed before they had any concept something was wrong other than mabe a few minutes drop in water pressure…
Awe crap, now you got me ruining my whole day by causing memories of some of those total fuckwads to come to the fore.
You’ve never tried educating brain dead SNCOs or officers?
I can only speak to my time in the Corps many, many years ago.
Yes weapons were expected to be very very clean for a inspection. After live fire we cleaned them for 3 days in a row. Usually for an hour or two, this time included individual rifles and crew served weapons.
As others have posted the Corps trains its troops to do things nearly to a very high level knowing that when you’re in combat with your dick in the dirt tired, cranky and uncomfortable you’ll still have a reflex to clean your weapons. It worked.
The first morning in Grenada one of the Marines in my squad asked about cleaning weapons before morning chow before I could get the words out of my mouth. I was very pleased.
Needless to say the cleaning consisted of a patch down the bore and a quick wipe of the bolt and BCG, Q-tip in the barrel extension and a layer of CLP. About 5 minutes each and we all shared 2 cleaning rods. I called it a “function clean”. We did not get in sea/salt water so corrosion was not a huge concern.
I convinced my chain of command to buy Carbon Killer and Slip EWL for the arms room. Also convinced them to loctite everything with threads. (common sense, but you’d be amazed at how many soldiers blame Trijicon/Aimpoint for their “wandering zero”)
Even though we still “white glove” our weapons after each range trip and jump, it makes the whole ordeal that much easier and when we DO use our weapons, atleast we have a quality lubricant now.