For those of you civvies who own DBALs, PEQs etc. - what are your service/repair options if your IR laser goes down? I know that LDI will not service privately owned IR devices, and I am sure Insight Tech won’t do either. I’ve been thinking of NV for a long time, and this issue is my major roadblock.
P.S. I am aware of LDI’s I2 civilian-friendly option; there are a couple of things that make me not want it.
To be honest, you are typically screwed (especially if you own an LDI product). About your only option is to have an LE agency send it in for you and HOPE that they will send it back to them. Things might have changed, but from my experience, they will track that laser and then start to ask questions to the LE agency (as they did not buy it from them). Then the fun begins.
C4
Yeah, no changes. If one manages to procure a Class IIIB-capable piece of serialized gear, one is generally boned in terms of servicing.
All the loopholes one can squeeze through to get the thing can be pretty easily pinched shut by the folks with a valid worry about losing gov’t contracts over real or perceived non-comliance with law/policy regarding such things, so they’ll opt on the side of caution if there’s even a hint of a question about legal ownership.
The PEQ 15 has an excellent track record overseas, considering the abuse and heat they take. It is like the aimpoint of IR lasers. I consider it a disposable item.
I am more concerned about any laser that may fail when I need it. That is why I put my trust in the 15, though others may be technically better.
I kind of thought that much, but, seeing how people are spending mid-four digit numbers on IR/NV, I was wondering if there were third party repair options.
What are the things that make you not want it?
Note to self - don’t post when you 1st wake up.
Multiple reports that it washes out with IR illumination. I don’t need long distance but I want it to work up close well.
I presume this could be worked out by finding appropriate power IR illuminator, but I’ve not seen reports yet.
Regular DBAL has visible and IR lasers slaved off each other - you zero one, another gets zeroed too. Things like getting initial zero, confirming it, re-zeroing when moving unit from one rifle to another can be done in daylight. For somebody who has unlimited options of shooting in no-light this [separate zeroing for vis and IR] shouldn’t be a problem. I don’t have easy access to no-light range and really want to be able to zero mine in daytime off of visible laser.
Understood. Good reasons. Thank you.
I am using a Laser Devices DBAL I2 (Civ Class I IR) unit on my AR with a PVS-14. I use a Surefire M952V as an IR illuminator and white light source. I have one of the initial releases, the newer ones are supposedly good out to distances past 100 yards. 100 yard shots are difficult as it is, shooting steel offhand under NODs.
I can tell you from my personal experience, the IR laser pointer does not get washed out with either the IR light nor white light of the M952V. I have done indoor testing and also night live fire with it out to 100 yards. You’re not going to get the Death Star laser beam coming out of it but the dot was easy for me to pick up in my PVS-14.
My laser and IR pointer is zero’d out to 100 yards. I was initially put back the slaved zero issue, but once it’s set, it’s a non issue to me. Ideally you want to zero your laser in low-light conditions as even the green visible laser is difficult to see at 100 yards in daylight.
For me the cost of the Class I IR laser and the ability to have it warrantied outweigh the higher cost of, usually a used Class III IR unit, and the chance of it turning into an expensive paperweight. Given the high cost of most Gen III night vision and night vision accessories, such as mounts, the civilian lasers from LDI are a bargain.
This is a great video of it in use:
Definitely past 100yd.
This is very recent; the power output of the IR aim laser on the new Class 1 DBALs has been ramped up from .07mW to .65mW.
For this sort of device, that’s a biiiig jump, and will easily put the IR pointer efficacy well past the 125-150m that one is able to detect a man-sized target under ideal conditions with a new/well-maintained GenIII I-square NVG (ideal being defined as half-moon, no clouds, no point-source artificial light pollution) in the hands of a competent user (this is difficult to define; I’ve lost count of how many people manage to completely forget a set of -14s has a diopter focus and a gain control…).
That thing just went from “pretty good” to “really damned capable” within the niche it’s meant to fill. Affordable (relatively), works at realistic distances, and has a company that backs the product.
Stuff like this, and the increased output of the newer Class 1 IR lasers, makes it less than worthwhile, in most cases, for civilians to purchase gray market PEQ’s. At least in my mind.
I’m curious to see the performance of the Lasermax unit. I doubt it’s the most durable product but the slim profile and light weight makes it seem like it might be a winner. If I’m not getting the illuminator and the power out of a DBAL or PEQ-15, I see no need to go with a neutered version just for looks and a green laser.
The ability to have a C1 repaired is a nice option as opposed to having CID knock on your door after you’ve sent your serialized laser in for a check-up.
I must have gotten one of the newer DBAL-I2s. I have been able to see mine in excess of 300 yards on a moonless night. Mine is one from the fourth batch TNVC got in. I am going to get a UNI-IR, but haven’t yet. Personally, if the funds were even close to available, I’d get the DBAL-I2 for a rifle. Its more durable and you can use the green laser as a back up sight or in smoke, fog, etc or as a pointer/signaller.
I ordered one from TNVC on the 17th, hope to see if it’s ther new vs. old this week. I had the ability to purchase a “gray” one but declioned for the reasons given above.
Me too. I kept hearing all this 75-80 yards max stuff and I can see both my ITAL & UNIMAX off trees 500 yards away. One is slightly fainter than the other, but it is visible.
I figured out a trick that may help you.
I sighted my scope in at the range in the day time. Then mounted an IR laser to the same spot in low light. Now since this wasn’t at 100 yards and the laser is mounted closer to the barrel…it is not 100% dead on, but for me it is close enough.
If I had a 100 yard spot that was low light…
+1
I have used this method and it works fine. Sight the scope to the range you want the IR and you will be fine. For my hog gun, my IR is sighted to about 75 yards and I use subsonic 220s. The day scope is sighted for a more conventional 50/200 zero using the supersonic ammo.
Some models of the DBAL I2 IR laser have a problem with discharging batteries. I have a higher powered one with a 7/11 manufacture date that kills batteries in about 2 weeks even on the off position. I really like the laser, but am not super pleased with the lack of communication from Laser Devices. I am still waiting on a return authorization number.
This is a limited issue with select circuit boards. I have heard all new units coming out are good to go. Sorry to hear you are having issues but from what I have read LDI has been responsive to those having issues.
My initial purchase would drain the batteries in 2 days. I got an RMA and sent it back. They replaced the whole unit and it seems the drainage issue is resolved. FWIW it took about 3 weeks to get back to my porch and the CS was great.