Cherry pick the TDP

AR/M4 AR Technical Discussion
1

We have, and have had, several threads on the minutia of the AR system, from testing, to materials, to finishes, etc. I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on a “next generation” AR. Let’s keep the form factor essentially identical. Changing the controls or adding levers is fine, but I really want to focus on the materials, finishes, etc. Please also say WHY you would change something, or keep something the way it is now. This isn’t about adding rails or changing out the furniture.

Let’s also assume DI as well. If someone wants to talk ideal piston gun then start another thread.

2

Lengthen the gas system and tune it for reliability while reducing the violence of the extraction, change the barrel profile to something that makes more sense than the M4 and look at redesigning the bolt to improve service life.

Put it on a diet to see where weight could be shaved without compromising ruggedness. For example, I’d look at reducing the weight of the rails system, but not at the expense of making it fragile.

Extend the rail of the upper forward a few inches to give more room for optics without having to go with a monolithic design.

Develop a lightweight, slender, heat proof free-floating forearm.

Having a charging handle that’s less awkward to operate while the rifle is shouldered might be a good change

3

I’d be interested in a side charger di rifle, just to see how it performs and if it beats the hell out of some part of my body.

4

Put a baked on enamel or polymer finish on the steel exterior parts. The barrel, ejection port cover and bolt assist always seem to rust. Granted, most of this can be attributed to improper cleaning practices. A smooth polymer type finish would eliminate the need to use a GP brush to scrub the dirt from these components. Pretty minor improvement that shouldn’t be too controversal.

5

Standardized buffer, spring and receiver extension across models whether rifle, midlength or carbine.

Standardized barrel gas port size across gas system lengths.

Adjustable gas pressure via dial/knob/screw on gas block, with intregal ‘presets’ for rifle, carbine, midlength, supressed, etc.

All 3 of the above would allow much greater interchangabilty of parts, cut inventory needs and allow for emergency parts swapping if neccisary.

Easily RH/LH reversable charging handle on side of carrier rather than conventional version, but only if it can be done as non~reciprocating and keep dust/debris out.

‘Possibly’ a secondary safety system within the trigger guard proper.
Would prefer something closer to M203 as opposed to Glock trigger though.
(ie: a separate manual device that could be left on or off at operators choice rather than always on until the trigger is pulled)
Logic behind it would be that semi/burst/auto could be pre~selected, but firing could not occur until the trigger safety was released.
Moving the the selector lever under stress would not be required and the side benifit of grip not changing at all as a result. Simply ‘push/point then pull’ with the forefinger.
Done properly it may not even need much if any redesign of the existing trigger but the receiver would need obvious changes.

If used as the primary safety and the selector lever safety position were eliminated, the 4 position selector lever could be revamped to still allow semi/burst/FA, but only need a 180 degree sweep to accomplish all selections.
Even further, it wouldn’t require an ambi selector lever as it would be accessable right there centered in the receiver rather than on one side of the other.

6

I think with modern finishes such as Ion Bond, Melonite, Nickel-Boron, NP3, etc - we should look beyond phosphate and chrome lining for both corrosion resistance and lubricity. I’ve been impressed with the Fail Zero BCGs and would go with Nickel Boron for the BCG - for ease of maintenance if nothing else. I’ll toss it up between Ion Bond and Melonite for the barrel and chamber - but the ability to combine corrosion resistance without the accuracy penalty of the chrome lining seems beneficial.

Cold hammer forged barrel - this next generation AR is going to last longer, so the barrel should also have maximum longevity. Mid-length gas system.

Free floated handguard joined with the upper with at least the option for rail attachments. After watching the recent Daniel Defense torture test video, I’m convinced the railed handguard protected the barrel and fragile gas tube from damage that the older plastic handguards would not withstand.

Fully ambidextrous controls. This is less about accommodating lefties than the fact that we are training to fire the carbine from both shoulders. Being able to put the rifle on safe regardless of the hammer position is beneficial (HK has made this change).

Integrated folding BUIS, front and rear, for maximum optics and accessory (lights and lasers) compatibility (as well as less stuff for the troops to lose in the field).

The handguard and stock should have multiple QD points to accommodate various sling choices, body sizes and gear. QD receiver endplate ala Noveske - simply a functional improvement over the original - and a logical addition considering the modern usage of single point slings.

Time to discard the A2 flash hider in favor of something better. Maximum signature reduction should be the goal for a military rifle. Suppressor functionality should be integrated from the start. Smith-Vortex, AAC Blackout, BE Meyers have paved the trail, but the current Crane competition (Family of Muzzle Brakes and Suppressors - FMBS) will show us the way forward.

KAC is out front on many of these changes with the SR15E3.

Call this a throwback, but after seeing pictures of troops in Afghanistan carrying fully assembled cleaning rods (or rubber banding them to their rifles) in order to clear stuck cartridges, I’d like to take a page out of the Kalashnikov series and add an integrally stored full length cleaning rod to the design. Integrate this with the full length free float handguard and upper - not the barrel.

7

Cold Hammer forged, nitirded, polygonally rifled barrel.

8

Flow formed cobalt alloy barrels using case-telescope ammo.

9

I wouldn’t mind seeing something like a FDE anodized finish standard, along with more corrosion-resistant finishes on some of the steel parts as was already mentioned. I just haven’t had the time or desire to paint my ARs and work doesn’t want us non-snipers painting our guns, but I can’t really see where a black rifle fits into a battle or tactical scenario better than something like FDE or OD.

10

Start with the SR15e3(CHF barrel, ambi controls, gas system length, bolt) - This should help with controllability, life cycle and recoil management.

Turn it into a dissipater(fixed front and rear sight, rifle length hand guards) - Longer sight radius with a completely covered gas block, again should assist with weapon controllability.

Spring load firing pin - keep from deadening primers

11

…as long as it fires 10mm casless, exploding, light armor piercing ammo. Add a underbarrel pump grenade launcher and a round counter. Make it easy enough for Sigourney Weaver to use.

12

For the M4 carbine, Things I would change:

  1. Use a 16" barrel, 1x8 twist midlength cold hammer forged 11595-E steel barrel.
  2. Crane LMT/KAC SOPMOD or VLTOR E-Mod stock to replace M4 stock both are stronger and better than the M4 stock.
  3. KAC E3 style barrel extension and KAC style E3 bolt. Both have proven to last at least 4-5 times longer than Colt style AR/M4 bolts.
  4. Standard charging handle replaced with Type 4 or 5 BCM/VLTOR Gunfighter charging handles.
  5. CAR receiver extensions replaced with VLTOR A5 extensions and VLTOR 5oz standard A5 buffers. Buffer springs would share the same part number as the M16A2, A3 and A4 buffer springs.
  6. Finish on gas tubes, barrel extensions, carrier keys, bolt carriers, cam pins, ejectors, extractors & extractor and ejector pins, firing pins, hammers, triggers and disconnectors, safety/selectors, take down pin detents, safety/selectors detents and interior of inner of metal magazines and the inner and outer surfaces of upper and lower receivers replaced with a nickel boron finish.
13

Monolith

14

I really think that KAC is well ahead of the power curve on this question. But I’ll play.

mid-length or intermediate gas system matched with the correct buffer system
adjustable gas system w/ a “suppressed” setting
monolithic upper receiver, bottom section should be removable to allow free float of under barrel auxiliary weapon systems.
improved bolt & extractor
CHF barrel
improved flash suppressor/compensator/suppressor mount
ambidextrous lower receiver
improved charging handle
PMAGS

IMO there’s nothing really wrong with anodizing but we should probably move away from black. All steel parts should be nitrided vs parkerized if it can be done without destroying the material properties.

Hell most of this can be done with COTS gear the Grant sells. :smiley:

15

Too easy!

16

Of course, replace 1913 rails with STANAG 4694 rails.

17

I’d like to see some experimentation with modern coatings on the Bolt, bolt carrier, barrel exterior, and trigger mechanism; strengthening the portion of the bolt surrounding the cam pin (like KAC’s E3 system); a relocation of the extractor pin to provide more leverage for the extractor spring (like the KAC E3 bolt); consideration of stronger metal for the gas rings and a redesign of the gas rings to a more robust design with longer life; using a barrel nut or some other (robust) system of removing heat more quickly from the chamber area of the barrel regardless of handguards used (JP Rifles’ barrel heat sink comes to mind for a starter); adopting a KAC or Noveske barrel profile using a cold hammer forged barrel and a midlength gas system on a 16" or an 8" system on a carbine 14.5" barrel; and affixing a better muzzle device than an A2…or multiple different devices for different roles (SPR, Mk18, M4, M16A4, etc.).

EDIT: after re-reading my post, I think I’m just gonna recommend a NiB coated KAC E3 bolt, cam pin, and receiver extension, with a KAC CHF barrel and intermediate gas system…fuck it. Spec an SR15 E3 w/ an A5 RE and 5oz buffer. Coat the inside of the bitch and all internal components w/ NiB.

18

Nail, meet hammer.

I would also go with a Geissele F/A trigger, a “flared” mag well (we’ll see how NGA’s does) and- while optics are an entirely different can of worms- a variant of the TA11 ACOG and/or a variable power optic. The TA01 and TA31’s eye relief are unacceptable in comparison.

also include a small bottle of lube in every Emod or LMT stock compartment. Preferably the Sprinco Machine Gunner Lube that LaRue (used to?) ship with their orders. Change the training to emphasize lubrication over white-glove cleaning.

I believe we’ll also see significant improvements in barrel coatings.

19

From my observations of the way the M4 gets used by our security forces guys, and my own tinkering, I think these are the best things that can be improved upon:

  1. Fully ambidextrous controls. Like JSGlock said, it has less to do with accommodating lefties than it does with providing adequate control when firing from either shoulder with either hand. Modern training doctrine is less about static range pop-up shooting and more to do with firing from cover and transitions.

  2. Charging handle. The BCM Gunfighter is great for operating the gun while it’s still at the shoulder with the off hand only, but it still only works from the left side of the gun. So in addition to the ambidextrous control, perhaps it’s time to relocate to the sides.

  3. Modern coatings. The fabled fragility of the M4 in adverse conditions is, as we all know, overblown. But that doesn’t mean it has no merit at all. There are certainly ways we can coat the moving parts to increase longevity an reduce wear.

  4. A barrel profile that makes sense. A pencil contour is great for us, but I see how Joe treats his rifle, and it’s just asking for trouble if we force a pencil profile. But having the skinny end at the receiver and a fat end at the muzzle doesn’t make much sense either. There has to be a happy medium.

  5. Easily changed barrels/fore end units. Getting into the really out there conceptual stuff. It would make sense to me that a truly modular rifle could be configured for any mission. We know this can be accomplished by switching uppers on the fly, but what if we reduced that even further down to just the barrel and forearm? Joe could go from a CQB MK18 profile up to a 18" SPR profile in just a few seconds while keeping the same upper receiver and trigger, a forearm and barrel assembly alone certainly takes up less space and weight than a complete upper receiver with separate optics platform.

20

Lengthen the gas system. Corrosion free coating fucking everywhere. Lighter barrel profile. Better stock. Lose a lug on the bolt, make the remaining ones bigger and stronger.