Changes to primary firearm

Training Training and Tactics
1

Curious what changes people made to their primary firearms after they attended their first class. What did you waste your money on before running the gun in stock form to find out what works and what didn’t work?

I’m finally getting off my ass and have started training. I have attended 1 class so far and had 1 range day of running drills with a veteran of several classes. I think I learned a lot more running drills with one other guy, then at a class full of guys doing a conga line. I’m currently scheduled to attend another one day, all shooting class in November.

I’ve already noticed, that what I thought was a damn good set up is seriously lacking.

This is what I thought was good to go:

I found myself gripping to far forward for the carbine rail, and burning myself on the gas block. So the rail needs extended. DD 10" Lite will be added. The LMT rear BUIS in addition to the FSB is distracting, Low profile gas block (needed for new rail anyway) and Troy BUIS needed.

I currently have and like a 2-point sling. The one point is attractive for the transitions. But I really like the 2-point and the way the gun hangs and is easier for me to grab. That’s something I’ll have to fight my way through, and make the decision after a few other training days and classes. I’m pretty stuck on the 2 point. Maybe I’m just stubborn.

I’m also left handed. If I could find Knights lower for sale I would consider it. I’ve been thinking about the POF Gen III lower for the ambi release, but that’s another tax stamp and a wasted lower, I’m going to make this one work. I have some things that need addressed to make the mag changes easier, I already have a Ambi Safety and a Badger Gen II Tac Latch. I feel the Tac Latch makes it easier to power stroke the charging handle one handed. I’m between the Norgon vs. Knights for the Ambi Mag Release to make the mag changes smoother. Still not sure which one to go with.

The ARMS mount has tape on the underside of the mount to keep it tight, still holds true but its time to go. LaRue inbound. The SOG VFG is still workable, however the short version of the FUG or TD is all I really need; It’s an indexing point for my grip, not really a VFG, another inbound item.

Another item I’m thinking about changing is the barrel. I have a CMMG 1:7 11.5" barrel currently on this one. I’m debating it is worth it to get either a BCM 11.5" Hammer Forged or a DD 11.5" Hammer Forged (when/if they are available). I’m also looking at the ballistics of a 12.5" polygonal barrel. The increases velocity of the additional 1" of barrel as well as the polygonal rifling is attractive. For those who have one, is it a waste of money or money well spent? ?

The suppressor is another thing I’m looking at replacing. I have a Gem Tech M4-02 on the gun currently. It does its job. I did have it walk loose at the range on day and cause a malfunction. Not really pleased by that. Since it started to walk off last weekend, I Red Loc Tighted it to the gun, I’m not all that worried about getting it off, as hot as the can gets, it should burn the Loc Tight off and make the suppressor easy to get off after one range session. At least that’s my plan. We’ll see how that works out! Personally, I wouldn’t like to be on the range, at a class next to a sub-16" barrel w/o a suppressor. So it’s just good manors to have a can on an 11.5" gun.

I have a SWR A2-RA on order, but who knows when that will come in, and then have another 5-6 months for ATF to clear the Form 4. From the pics on the web site it looks something like Surefire mounting system, hopefully that accurate and it’s a positive as the Sure Fire mount and doesn’t allow it to back off once it heats up.

I’m sure this is old news to a lot of the members here, I’m just looking for a little advise about weapon set up. There is a lot of class and real world experience here; I’m looking for that experience and the advice they have to offer.

Thanks for any advise.

Chad

2

Less is better, adding stuff doesn’t make it lighter.

M_P

3

Less may be better, but having a gun that works the way you want it to, is more important.

If I were a student of less is better I would be running a A1 light weight w/ no can, optic or light.

I didn’t ask about weight, just wondering what changes people made after they started training.

4

I will add some ideas to the pot…

Maybe ditch the rear sight…I have one of the same and love it but not with optics or a back up to optics… I see that rear sight as a stand alone unit for running a rig “irons only”… I can shoot pretty damn good with just that iron sight combo so it may be “considerable” to just run irons.
I use the Magpul MBUS now as back ups to my optic…they are light and fast.

I would extend that rail to at least a 9" middy with a low pro gas block… You 10" selection should be perfect.
Maybe opt for a shorter or “stubby” VFG since its just a reference point…

I am still back and forth on the sling thing… I see merits in both single and 2 point slings… maybe get one that does both.

I can see benefits of using a tactical bolt catch, ambi mag and bolt release and ambi tac latch… I am not completely sold on the ambi selector since I have heard stories of them breaking so I am on hold for that one…

5

Looking at your weapon, better rail covers. I only have rail ladders on top. After a few mags, you’ll see my point, unless you use nomex gloves.

6

Interesting. I haven’t noticed that as a problem yet. however I’ve been so worried about my grip and not hitting the gas block, maybe I have over looked that. Something to watch next time I’m at the range.

Thank You

7

You might want to consider a 9.5 FSP-type rail rather than just getting a longer rail and a low pro gas block, or at the least just having the FSB shaved down to fit under a longer rail instead.

You mention the iron sights being a distraction, is your ARMS Aimpoint mount set up for 1/3 co-witness or absolute?

How are you activating your light? From the pic it looks like you’re wrapping your thumb around the VFG to activate the clickie on the light, have you tried running the light on the 3 o’clock rail instead of the 9 o’clock rail?

8

Maybe you didn’t, but for me they are/were one and the same.

Weight of the carbine is, IMHO, the #1 most overlooked factor by those that haven’t actually gone out and shot the gun before, and the #1 thing that they then most resist acknowledging after the fact.

I built up what I thought was the baddest barfcom carbine at the time when the ban sunset. 14.5" LMT upper with pinned Gemtech suppressor mount, 12.0 Larue rail, light, Magpul M93 stock, etc. The other picture posters loved it. Problem was that once I got out and started shooting it the damn thing was just too heavy. If it had been heavy for a purpose I might have dealt with it, but my next carbine, that became my primary for quite some time, was almost entirely a reaction to all that extra weight.

From time to time I forget these lessons. I let the gun get weighed down with a bunch of extras, or heavier versions of various things than needed, and it doesn’t take long before I self-correct and get back on track and in turn get happier about my shooting.

9

Made the changes.

With out the can, it no real weight difference as far as I can tell. Wish I had a postal scale to give exacts, but with only a Vortex flash hider it feels the same as before. The can is the only thing that really makes a big difference.

I have another can inbound, I got word Thursday that my SWR A2-RA will be shipping soon, and I got a serial number for it too, so hopefully in 6 or 7 months I’ll have an A2 flash hider and a QD can. Not that it will be lighter, but the QD function will be a big bonus over the thread on.

10

I would have kept it the same as you started, but would have replaced the big SF with an X300.

Given your current setup you can go a step further-
Place an X300 at 12 oclock
Put your BUIS behind it, in the UP position
You can run the rear BUIS either up or down, but I would have stuck with the LMT as long as the irons were lower 1/3 in the optic.

11

I recently finished my first course using a very plain Sabre Defence M4-style carbine. I did a few upgrades – LMT bolt carrier group, O-ring, H buffer, and a mil-spec receiver extension. Basically, I used The Chart to see what was lacking and fixed it.

The only add-ons were a Vickers sling and a Surefire LED G2 mounted on a short piece of rail on top of the handguard.

After the course, the only definite changes I’ll make are:

  1. A second carbine. :slight_smile:
  2. An Aimpoint

I started wishing I had a vertical foregrip. I wanted something to grab onto with my left hand when the rifle was hanging by the sling.

I also may relocate the back mount of my sling to the receiver or get a different stock. The quick-detach assembly of the VCAS with the regular M4 stock seems to get jammed up against my collarbone. Anyone have suggestions on this?

12

I like the longer handguard with flip front sight better than the car length handguard and a2 post…

+1 on getting a more compact light like and x300 or m3x…Even a light laser combo like an x400 or m6x

Nice looking rig

13

I guess it all depends on your use of your carbine and what you primarily plan to do with it after you finish up the class. Yeah if your going through a half day course im sure your going to want to take stuff off due to fatigue, but I wouldnt let weight render how you set your system up. I use mine for personal/home defense and considering that that type of engagement would would last at an absolute max of 2min I dont think that an extra lb of weight based on my setup is gonna matter to me at that point :smiley:

14

I dumped useless crap off of my rifle. I want a reliable red dot and a white light. The lighter those two items can be the better. I suppose a VFG is still a pretty personal decision, but I took it off and have been very happy. I may still wind up using one with the techniques you see the Magpul fellas running, but I like being able to touch the magazine with my forearm and get another point of contact.

I learned why Aimpoint T1’s are so popular. I learned that I am in fact happier with a G2L than some monstrously heavy Pentagon light/laser. I learned enough that as soon as I saw the DDM4 I was instantly sold due to the longer rail to get my hand out further. I also learned that being stuck with iron sights wouldn’t be nearly as bad as I had envisioned.

15

Try shooting your carbine as is with your strong hand only or support hand only.

Kyle Lamb had us running drills like that during the July VTAC Street Fighter class to simulate being injured.

It was an eye opener how much a little extra weight can affect your shooting/manipulations.

16

I’ve been shooting M16-type weapons since 1989 (M16A1), so the weapon I use now is a gradual evolution - not lessons learned from one class. Here’s what I’ve learned:

SBR is worth the $200. I have an 11.5" barrel on mine. Lighter weight, center of gravity moved back, shorter length, and its still effective at actual carbine ranges (I’m in LE now, so I can’t really see 200m+ capability as a reasonable trade-off).

Better grip. The stock A1 or A2 grip is just way too small for most men. I have the ERGO but I bought it before the Magpul was available.

Mil-Spec - I know that no AR15 is actually mil-spec, but a mil-spec BCG and mil-spec barrel are worth the extra price. Also some of the little details like a staked castle nut on the receiver extension.

Good 2-point sling. These just make life easier. I have the Vickers, but the V-Tac is good too.

Micro Aimpoint. I can’t say enough about this sight. I have one in a LaRue mount. Very low weight and incredible durability and battery life. Makes the job of actually hitting your intended target exponentially easier, and the worse the shooting conditions, the better the sight makes things for you. I think I would rather have a cheaper rifle with a Micro Aimpoint than a better rifle with iron sights.

Surefire G2 LED. Low cost, low weight, high performance. I like this light a lot. For less than $100 you’re ready to go. I have mine in a VLTOR mount.

Extras: I also have a LaRue BUIS and a standard front sight. Personally, I’ not aware of them when using the Aimpoint. I like that they are there, always ready. I work night shift, so I keep my Aimpoint set at 7. I’ve deployed my rifle in broad daylight, though, and found the setting too low. It was no big deal to instantly transition to iron sights without touching a thing. As soon as I could, I cranked up the dot intensity. I also have a DD Omega rail with a VFG. I consider these as “nice to have”. They add very little weight and just make the mounting and running of the white light easier for me.

Things I see little use for on a carbine: Billet receivers, storage of parts on the rifle, after-market triggers, after-market charging handles, after-market buttstocks that add any weight at all, bipods, heavy barrels, spare magazines on the rifle.

17

Stock AR triggers leave much to be desired. I tinkered with 2 stock triggers and made them more “likeable” but I recently dove into a Geissele SSA becuase I feel I need more from my trigger group. I am talking practical shooting, not bench, lead sled or casual plinking. These triggers came highly recommended.
I will still continue tinkering with the stock triggers but they dont compare to a solid “aftermarket” drop-in unit.

I like billet. I like beef. There is much debate on differences and whats stronger but I am not a metallurgist so thats not my fight. Out of the Billet I have fondled and compared to standard receivers I am a convert to billet-only builds. I have heard great things about billet from those that work with it on a daily basis to make stronger high wear and tear parts.
Its a preference, not a policy.
This leads me to my next comment about after market charging handles. The billet charging handles namely the BCM gunfighter, offer significant rigidity and longevity over the standard ones which can and will break. Not that these cant or wont break but maybe not as soon or in the same fashion. They have received high accolades as of late and it seems there are tons of gun runners who have converted to them.

Just some thoughts and a few more sticks on the fire…

Take care all…
Happy V-day

18

I have and yes weight in that sense makes a world of difference making it hard to even keep your rifle up let alone stay on target/ acquire one. Another instance is dropping into an urban prone of the reaction side i admit it is a tiny bit heavy. But weight issues arise because of strength issues and training issues. There are soldiers and contractors that run lights lasers suppressors scopes without issues because they train to that much weight. People tend to forget that more than half of your training should consist of dry fire. I dry fire and practice certain weapons manipulations around my house every day without any issues because I have trained myself to the point where its a negligent issue .

19

you are wrong.

20

They also arise because people get shot or injured during gunfights

Would you mind sharing your training program? It would be great if I could train myself to the point where weight is a negligent issue.