Ive seen some here, including some who’s opinions I value, express a dislike for drop-in triggers like the Velocity or any of the dozens of others.
Would those of you who dont like them explain your reasons why not?
My experiance with the Velocity 4lb on an LMT has been great. Got a 3lb coming in today for a 20" gun Im putting together.
What am I missing here?
And likewise- anyone who likes them, chime too.
Many of us don’t care for the method used to retain the trigger cassette used by most of the trigger manufacturers. Some, like the Velocity use jack screws to push up on the cassette to jamb the trigger/hammer pins. Others require the use of anti-rotation pin assemblies to retain the pins. Screws are a liability IMO. If you catch them before they fall out you need tools to tighten them. Same thing if you get debris(like a primer) into the trigger you in some cases have to remove the cassette to shake it out. You need tools again. I use the Wilson TTU. The pins are retained by the springs like a standard trigger. The only tool needed is the point of a bullet.
Here is a thread I started a while back on this very subject.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?182828-What-is-the-allure-of-drop-in-cassette-triggers&highlight=Cassette
Thanks gents. GH41 the part about debris or primers getting into them is valid & I hadnt thought of that. As for the screws backing out, mine havent in years and a few thousand rounds, so far.
Titsonritz…thanks for that link, I read over it and people then thought it was mainly for “ease of installation” and for people that couldnt install a standard trigger.
Not my case. Ive tried a couple of Giessele triggers…awesome. I guess Im talking more for use on a precision or hunting/target rifle…not a duty/HD gun, even tho Ive got a 4lb Velocity on mine.
Just not found a standard type trigger yet as crisp, light…3lbs…as the Velocity trigger.
Also- yeah…I KNOW it does & can & has happened…but Ive never had a popped primer or seen a gun that had, so Id consider that as so remote as to not be a factor.
Keep answers coming gents.
I’m an admitted fan of Geissele triggers, and also a fan of the Larue MBT and the original JP trigger group.
That said, I’ve been very impressed by feel of the Wilson Combat, TriggerTech, and AR Gold cassette type triggers. I haven’t really used any of the three enough to talk about long term reliability or durability.
The thread titsonritz linked to is a great discussion of the subject. The TTAG blog post linked in that thread is also pretty good (https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/04/jeremy-s/ar-15-drop-in-trigger-roundup/), which is honestly a little surprising considering it’s from TTAG.
Regular triggers like the OEM USGI, Geissele, KAC, and Larue allow debris/crud to shed off the parts and fall into the bottom of the FCG pocket of the lower.
Cassette type triggers accumulate crud and can catch a blown primer.
So Im seeing the only downside is the possible crud or blown primer gumming things up, and I agree thats more likely on a drop in trigger.
As far as actual trigger pull and all that goes with that…creep…overtravel…reset…pull weight especially…I do still believe some drop ins have an advantage with this.
Anyway- question answered…I wanted to know if it was a mechanical prob i wasnt aware of or what. Thank you all for answers.
Aren’t some cassette types set up to minimize interior nooks and crannies to reduce the odds of that happening?
According to the gunsmith that worked on a buddies AR that suddenly started having a wide range of problems, he found a blown primer in the stock fcg.
Geissele changed the game with their triggers. If I upgrade, they are all I will use.
Plenty of people like to harp on reliability “I’m not taking it into combat and I want the best trigger pull.”
Go for it. I remember the 90s when all the neutered POS imports jammed once a magazine (CETME, FAL, etc). I wasn’t shooting at anyone, and no one was shooting at me and it was still a pain in the ass.
Keeping things reliable is so much more than “safe” from an M4C.net all-weapons-are-tools point of view, it just keeps the act of shooting fun.
I will never use anything that compromises reliability for that reason, and cassette triggers are a casualty of that mindset.
Geissele Triggers 24/7
I have had a blown primer wind up under a Geissele SSA-E and completely lock it up. It only happen once to me in my shooting career but it did happen. Now I’m running a couple of Velocity 3 lb triggers. So far so good. I didn’t switch because of the lock up, I just wanted a crisp single stage at a reasonable price.
I ran a couple JP’s original kits for years, then stumbled across a Timney Competition cassette for an attractive price, so bought it. I was expecting it to have no creep, a crisp release, and no over travel, and that’s what I got. It took a bit of break-in, but it’s now as good as any of my Timney bolt gun triggers. The Timney uses set screws to retain the pins, but I added anti-rotation pins for extra insurance.
No AR trigger (that I’m aware of) is fully immune to a primer getting into a bad spot and causing a stoppage.
I literally 30 minutes ago put in a 3lb Velocity on the lower for my 20" gun Im putting together. HO-LEE-COW it is unreal. UN-REAL. Went and got my LMT thats had a 41b on it for many many years now, and checked the screws, that werent Lok-Tited…and they are as snug as the day I put it in.
Thanks for the report on your Geissele getting locked…some here dont believe it possible…I WILL say it is less likely…still possible.
Im not up on all the G triggers…only been around two…but for quality, trigger performance, ease of install, & just as importantly PRICE…Ill put my two Velocitys up against any other.
I have also found that cassette type triggers use danty lightly built parts
Been running the 3# Velocity triggers in several AR’s.
The guy that started the biz developed the AR trigger for Timney years ago.
If you look at them side by side- the Velocity is an “improved” Timney.
Zero problems to date with several thousand rds. through them.
Which ones? Not any Ive used.
I was looking at one of my Velocities while I was cleaning my rifle about 2 hrs ago. My son and I were trying to figure out where primer parts could enter. There’s very little space under the cassette or in between the sear/disconnector and the hammer/spring…there’s just not room for stuff to get in. Also the parts are pretty robust. The disconnector is the same width as the sear and hammer, which is about a 1/4". I cant’ speak for other cassette types though.
We can post photos of what we have.
I dont see any more of a problem myself, there are so dang many drop-ins Im sure that might apply to a few, but as for the Velocity’s…I aint seeing it either.
Cant quit playing with mine…dry firing all night!
I do like mine, light crisp and a short reset. Did you get the curved or straight trigger?
Got the straight for my 3lb & curved on the 4lb. I dunno if I imagine it or not…but that straight trigger feels SOOO much better imo.