I’ve researched, found and read a library’s worth of information on the carbine v mid-length discussions, the 14.5" v 16" middy discussions, and 14.5" carbine v 16" middy.
Can’t find much comparing 14.5" carbine to 16" carbine.
I’m waiting on a Daniel Defense build code. Planned build is essentially a V1 LW with a 14.5" barrel. Code’s taking a while to come, and standard 16" V1 LWs are available.
I’m aware that the dwell time on a 14.5" carbine is closer to what some consider ideal for reliability and smooth recoil pulse; I’m also aware that more than just dwell time affect reliability and felt recoil (port size, buffer weight and spring rate, etc.).
This rifle will be multi-use; in order of importance: HD, range and carbine class.
Anyone with practical knowledge and experience who can comment on what if any meaningful performance differences there are between otherwise identical, carbine gas length set-ups with 14.5" versus 16" barrels?
Issues pertaining to a pinned flash hider or the relative merits of overall rifle length aren’t in consideration; reliability, shootability, durability are.
If there are compelling reasons to wait for a build code and get the 14.5" V1 LW, I’d like to hear them. If it makes little practical difference, I’d like to pull the trigger on a 16" V1 LW now.
I’m curious why you’re not including the 16" midlength in your question. Is it also going to increase your wait time? I have the DDM4 V3 LW and love the configuration.
I’m sure many will say the 14.5" carbine length gas and 16" midlength are optimal. But you already know that. Good luck on your DD.
I have a 16" BCM carbine and a 14.5" (pinned to 16") BCM carbine. The “true” 16" will eat anything. Because the gas curve is a little different on the 14.5" I have to switch to a lighter carbine buffer when shooting milder .223 through that rifle otherwise I start getting malfunctions. I wish both carbines were 16" actually.
I’m focusing the question on carbine length because the V1 is set up in a way I especially like – fixed FSP with a 12" rail – and I also want to keep the thread from going over old territory.
(To your point, though, I’d happily grab a V5 LW or V3 LW; the V5s are few and far between right now, and the V3 in a lightweight configuration can only be gotten as a DD BYO. But they’re both great configurations, and the case for a mid-length gas system on a 16" barrel is certainly compelling.)
I have both a 14.5" carbine (Daniel Defense LW) build, and a 16" carbine (Charles Daly M4LE) both are using standard H buffers. From my experience there is very little difference in perceived recoil between the two carbines. Both have been 100% reliable with a wide variety of ammunition from lightly loaded .223 all the way to full power 5.56. I terms of MV the 16" carbines have a slight advantage 50-75 fps, IIRC while the 14.5" carbine is slightly more maneuverable. I think the biggest question is do you want to change the muzzle device. If you don’t think you will ever change it, I would go with the 14.5 with a pinned muzzle device to bring you up to 16". If you may want to change the muzzle device, 16" is the way to go.
Another really good option would be a 16" LW Midlength.
Thank you for the feedback. I’m surprised, though – I was under the impression that the carbine, even in a 14.5" configuration, would have more robust extraction (what some people experience as sharper recoil), and so a greater ability to extract lighter loads…
Aside from the performance issue (which is little difference) I would go with the 16". Leaves nothing permanent. With ARs you experiment and pinning limits that unless you like destroying muzzle devices. I just bought 2 14.5s recently. They’re both pinned. I’ve always had 16s. Bought them because Buford T. Justice’s thread about his 14.5/A5 being a smooth shooter kept me up @ nights wanting to try out his idea as well. But I would always default to a 16" barrel.
I say get the 16 ESPECIALLY if you are undecided on what to get. If you are undecided as to what you want in a barrel, chances are you are undecided in other areas. What if you get the shorter barrel & want to try out a Noveske NSR or say a Battlecomp? There are other things to consider besides differences in performance.
I do prefer lighter, more compact and maneuverable, though not at all costs. My hunch is the difference in velocity is negligible for most applications.
I think the biggest question is do you want to change the muzzle device. If you don’t think you will ever change it, I would go with the 14.5 with a pinned muzzle device to bring you up to 16". If you may want to change the muzzle device, 16" is the way to go.
This one won’t be a tinker toy, so I’m fine with a pinned muzzle device, and with an Omega X rail I think I’m safe if I ever have to remove the hand guard because it’s a two piece.
Another really good option would be a 16" LW Midlength.
Agreed, though how much so is another debate altogether.
The issue with the carbine length question is one of availability versus waiting, and if waiting is worth it.
Meaning the pinned flash hider will still be an impediment to removing the barrel nut?
Short of a repair of some kind, would there ever be a need to remove the proprietary barrel nut if I don’t intend to change the hand guard or flash hider?
Short of need to correct malfunction, I won’t be trying different stuff out on this build – I can save the tinkerer’s impulse for a different rifle. In light of this, do you still feel any performance differences between the 14.5" and 16" carbine length gas system’s are negligible enough to not to influence which I choose?
Chances are you will never receive a malfunction that would warrant removing the rail system and barrel nut. I would probably go with the 14.5" carbine. BTW, the Daniel Defense 14.5" lightweight barrel is awesome. I did a lightweight build using that barrel and my carbine weighs in at 6.0 lbs using the magpul MOE handguards and stock.
You can’t remove the gas block unless you remove the muzzle device. Therefore you can’t remove the barrel nut either…which also precludes the changing of certain rail systems unless you can use the same barrel nut.
This is IMO the only downfall of the 14.5" system.
Not likely
The performance differences between 14.5" and 16" are negligible at best in terms of terminal performance as well as performance of the system as a whole (given that that system is made by a quality manufacturer). You can’t go wrong with a DD where quality is concerned.
As long as you don’t plan to tinker with it, the determining factor IMO is how you will be using the weapon. You mentioned HD as your first concern in order of importance. I will tell you that my experience is that a 14.5" is much easier to manuever around doors and corners than a 16", and I would consider this the max barrel length that I would want for that role (I say “want” because you can make a 20" “work” for HD, though it’s not optimal). For me, that extra 1" or so on the 16" actually does make a difference in that role.
I see the 14.5" a true “Jack of all Trades”, it’s just too bad that legislation prevents this from being an easy setup to work with…
Which you would still have to pin…not sure where the benefit is unless you want a certain muzzle device that wouldn’t bring a 14.5" to the legal length
Ironman8 is correct about this and that is why I’m sticking with 16" barrels. I see no advantage in pinning and welding for a 1.5 inch difference that provides nothing extra.
Doc I’d be interested to hear why you say that. I have two nicely configured 16" mids (one is a BCM on a Rainier Arms lower, the other a Sabre on a Rainier lower). I’ve considered adding a 14.5 or selling one of my mids to get a 14.5, but I keep hearing people who have tried it say that it doesn’t gain them a whole lot in ease of handling, plus your point about reliability with certain loads.
14.5" hands down for me. I’ve owned a numbe of 16" guns and just prefer 14.5". If its a carbine gas system, I’ll definitely take a 14.5" which is optimal. It I’m forced into a 16", I slightly prefer a mid length.
Unless you just don’t know what you want, pick a hand guard and stick with it. Worst case scenario, you cut off the flash hider and perm install a new one after you replace the barrel but.
Or use a Centurion or Troy hand guard that drops in Nd don’t worry about it.
Having said that, if you’re new to rifles and just don’t know what you want or you like to change handguards more than you change barrels, go for 16". I only change my handguard if I rebarrel my rifle. Even ten I’ll use the same one if its working for me.
Pretty much in the same boat. The last two rifles I had assembled were 14.5’ Middy’s and I’ve been really pleased with the performance of both so far.
I used a DD Govt profile on one and it has right around 15K through it with no issues to date. The other one is fairly new and is a BCM with roughly 2500 rounds through it to date. No issues with that one either.
I have a Battlecomp on the DD barreled 14.5 and I’m using a SF Brake on the BCM. The BCM is my competition rifle and it’s one of the flattest shooting AR’s I own.
I have a few SBR registered lowers so, I haven’t even pinned either muzzle device even though I planned to do so after I fully function tested each rifle out. Just never got around to sending them off to get pinned.
But I would always default to a 16" barrel.