Can't we all just get along?

Let me start with a disclaimer: I know I don’t have many posts, but that doesn’t make me stupid or misinformed. You don’t know me, and you don’t know what I do and don’t know about firearms. The same goes for 99% of the members here, and I like that. I’m wearing my flame suit, and I haven’t been here long, but I’ve got to make an attempt at uniting everyone a little. Sorry, but I love this site already, and I just want to try and make it a little better, and maybe bigger. Ok, here we go.
:meeting:

I’m 100% on board for giving potential buyers and first time AR owners a head’s-up on what rifle brands they might not want to consider and what to look out for so they can make an informed decision and be happy (and safe!) with their purchase. BUT, the deep rooted hateful and affected talk about certain firearm brands that I constantly run into here boggles my mind. That kind of talk does nothing but piss off owners of those brands, thus alienating a part of our brotherhood. Yes, our brotherhood. I said it, and you either already do, or will, understand what I’m talking about.

We are ALL gun owners and enthusiasts, regardless of what it is you do with your guns, so we MUST stand together. Whether you’re running 1,000 rounds a week through your shiny old carbine at the bad guys or you get your factory-tight Barbie doll out of the safe once a year and take it to the range just to get it dirty, we are all equal, we are all entitled to our activity, and we are all in the same boat. We all love guns, and we all love the privileges that allow us to enjoy using them. What many here fail to realize is that they could learn something quite valuable from the hunting community. You see, as many of you who are hunters already know, we are all in a “fraternity” of sorts, and our rights as hunters are protected by no one but us hunters. Therefore, we stand together. We stick up for one another. We get each others’ backs. We defend our rights. Even if someone likes to hunt a different way than you, or prefers a different game animal, or hunts a legal way you don’t approve of, we ignore the differences and simply settle on the fact that we are one. If somebody I know wants to pay $299 for a crappy .30-06 and try their hand at whitetail hunting- great, more power to them. I’ll support their decision and help them any way I can and will keep my damn mouth shut about their rifle’s quality unless they ask. And even then, I’m not going to tell them they bought a piece of shit and must be slow. They are another soldier in my army for the war against the anti’s.

Enough about hunting. But if you think that we, as gun enthusiasts, are not in the crosshairs of the anti’s as much as hunters, you’re dead wrong. That’s what I don’t understand about this site. Everyone is always so damn hateful towards certain brands (and only a few really) and they really don’t give a damn who’s toes they step on during one of their many rants about how shitty “XYZ Rifles” are and how stupid you must be if you own one. What they don’t seem to realize is that if there are 250 owners of that particular rifle brand on this site, reading the hate posts, that’s 250 people that are now pissed and butt hurt that ANOTHER GUN ENTHUSIAST said their beloved rifle is no better than a boat anchor and they’re a dipshit for buying one. On top of that, most of these threads are closed with no warning or explanation before any kind of worthwhile discussion can take place. What is this, Russia?? Dammit.

This does nothing but create divisions between our ranks and segregate us into many smaller, less powerful groups of gun owners that are pitted against each other only to eventually be overpowered by the anti’s. There are much more effective and less antagonistic ways of informing people here what rifle brands are good, and what rifle brands are not so good. I know this is the “professional carbine site” but the fact is, not everyone here is using their gun for duty. In fact, I’d venture to say the vast majority of members here do not. And honestly, there’s probably a good percentage of those members that do claim to be high-speed special forces bullet-flingers that actually sit at a desk all day every day and haven’t ever been in a combat situation. Whatever- that’s the internet for you. My point is, no, it really doesn’t usually matter if your rifle won’t hold up to sustained heavy firing or isn’t staked on the receiver extension if you’re just owning it as a collector. Look, I know there are lots of other guys here that agree with me based on the posts I’ve been reading lately. I’m not trying to piss anybody off or step on any toes, or pretend like I’m some big swinging-dick internet tough guy that’s only been here a month and feels like he owns the place. In these tumultuous times with anti’s around every corner we simply CANNOT AFFORD to be at each others’ throats and must stand together as one and support our beloved hobby and constitutional rights!!

Rant over. :big_boss:

Good rant! I completely agree with everything that you said and have noticed the exact same things since joining this forum.

Sorry, but it seems an awful lot like you don’t like this site and would like to re-create it in your own image.

I cannot speak for everyone on here, but I think most could care less what brand of AR you own. The main point of the forum is that you learn how to properly shoot said weapon (meaning attend training schools).

Now, where fights erupt is when someone with a lower end AR attempts to “educate” the forum that theirs is just as good (if not better) than a KNOWN quality AR. That just ain’t gonna fly around here.

As for who does what and who needs what for personal defense, that isn’t my place OR your place to dictate that. I am a Civy and have an AR ready to defend my property and loved ones on a daily basis. Would I accept just any AR for this responsibility? No, never. You might though and that is just fine with me, but please do not tell me what is “good enough” for what I am doing.

P.S. Welcome to the best, most technical Gun forum on the net.

C4

Let me say that I mostly agree with you, but I really need to help everyone out with what should already be understood by people who proclaim themselves as “alphas”.

If you get wadded up in the shorts over what someone else thinks about your purchase, you probably aren’t as “alpha” as you think you are. If someone downs your favorite hunting rig, or calls you a dirt shooter, and you get bummed about it, you probably aren’t as “Tier 1” as you tell your friends.

I own some ArmaLite stuff, know what I am doing and buying, and would buy some more ArmaLite stuff if the price was right, or I wanted it.

I’m comfortable in my skin, I am not trying to be a SEAL or Delta, and I do need guidance from time to time on purchase selections, gear choices, or whatever.

I’ve bought so much stuff, with my own money to “T&E”, that I do what I want, when I want and I really don’t care, or lose sleep, when 100,000 people tell me that my ArmaLite AR-10 sucks.

Since it really doesn’t effect me, I naturally assume it doesn’t, or wouldn’t effect others, because I see most people here as cut from a similar (or maybe equal but different) cloth than I was. I know if I told Grant that his choice of an M&P pistol was stupid, he wouldn’t bat an eye at it. He knows the choice he made, and why, and is completely comfortable that he and I do not need to agree.

In fact, once upon a time I told him that a $60 Surefire was retarded, and that an $85 PRI Gasbuster was even more so. Turns out I just didn’t know what I didn’t know. SF makes one of the best lights available, and the PRI is far more robust than the CH offered as standard in most off the rack AR’s.

I digress…

At the end of the day, people are trying to be helpful, even if they are being terse in the way they try to help. In some cases, when someone has typed out, literally 100 times or more, the bulleted list of specifically what is wrong with the typical Bushmaster AR, they simply abbreviate it to “Bushmaster sucks, buy something else.” on post number 101.

We can’t change people, but we can control how what those people say to us, doesn’t effect us at all. We should start with ourselves first, harden ourselves up a bit, and then soften our own messages when dealing with someone who demonstrates sincerity.

All that being said, I am moving this to a more appropriate forum, it doesn’t belong in AR Discussion.

As a Tier 1 CAG SEAL, I’m offended by this thread. :fie:

Hey welcome to the forum.

You have some good points, but on the other hand you are new.

You havent been around long enough to know that there is a reason for things that are said.

On a WEEKLY basis someone is coming here to ask advice on a rifle or certain purchase. Most cases they are looking at a sub par rifle that will give them problems and lead to failures…which leads to more threads on “Why is my gun jamming?” I dont understand!"

They completely ignore advice given in the thread they start, then come back to start a NEW thread on why the POS wont cycle, why it broke or why they cant use it.

On top of THAT, they get butthurt of the replies they get on their garbage rifle.

It happened not 2 weeks ago with someone buying a rifle for their fiance.

Advice was given and they ignored it.

So by all means, feel free to buy whatever will suit your “needs” and justify by calling it a plinker or what have you…just dont bitch when it breaks

I understand the rant but don’t agree. M4C makes no bones about being a site with a specialty focus. To accommodate much discussion outside that focus would make it become something else… like, ARFCOM or something… and those people who care about that specialty focus would need to go somewhere new to talk about what they want to talk about.

Unity is good for all the reasons you mention, OP. But people with niche interests eventually need a place to gather and speak their minds.

people are equal, opinions are not.

http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1167906&postcount=16

:laugh:

I will add this (and it kind of goes along with what Shivan is saying)…

There are a LOT of people on this site, and others, who are only months, weeks, or days away from being the very guy they like to make fun of. Very often it’s those exact guys that come down hardest on the new guy. I’m not talking about calling someone on their statements like Grant describes, I’m talking about jumping on people with both feet and literally calling them names. You’ll see them a lot in the picture threads. :rolleyes:

Nobody is harder on the new guy than the guy that used to be the new guy. If your skin is so thin that what someone on the internets said about your gun bothers you, you might try searching that person’s posts and seeing if they are even worth a shit themselves. Often the case is “no”. Might help rebuild some of that abused self esteem.

That’s the problem with the new thinking…the mistaken concept that we must respect all opinions equally, and that all points must be valid, even if we don’t agree with them.

If we’re talking about Coke vs. Pepsi, or other matters of pure preference, opine away. However, when you’re talking about people who depend on their gear…and I mean truly depend on their gear, when lives are at stakes (not in some fantastical zombocalypse), the BS rapidly falls away, and you want what works.

If you want a “can’t we all just get along” love-in, you’re probably going to want to spend your interwebz discretionary clicks somewhere else. You should probably also avoid sites like Officer.com, SOCNET, and a few others, where you’re going to encounter people that have “seen the elephant”, and have a low tolerance for BS.

You sought out and joined the site. It did not seek out and join you.

I 99% agree with this, but must make a clarification that a variety of folks/shooters, even those not in harm’s way, can offer highly valued and quality insight on guns and gear.

I know rob_s has never “seen the elephant”, but I know how to distill a lot of his information for my own use.

I also know some guys who have “seen the elephant” and were carrying an M9 with 115gr FMJ, a 1994 motorola walkie-talkie, and a Maglight. Or alternately a S&W Chief’s Special or S&W .357Mag of some flavor. Those guys may have some valuable information, but they might want to save trying to upsell me on the 92FS or a Colt Python for general use. :smiley:

Meh, the atmosphere of what some consider dickish-ness around here is what I like. There is no political correct bull to get in the way of everyone here getting better in their training and equipment choices. I take this place as if you can’t handle people not agreeing with you move along.

And I love it that way. If I’m being stupid tell me I’m being stupid.

And that point is well-taken. It’s not all about HALO jumping about into Iraqafghanikurditstan at night during a Cat 5 hurricane to assassinate Hitler. Some varieties of “seeing the elephant” can come from having run an honest sampling of different gear…hard, in different conditions, and seeing what works. When you watch exemplar after exemplar of sub-standard gear lay down under strenuous use, you also lose the ability to rationalize why one would want to buy such gear.

Some HSLD types know very little about guns…beyond how to make them work and get rounds on-target. They couldn’t discuss the technical ins and outs of the AR/M4 platform, but they are excellent at making a bad guy dead with one. However, if you hand them a pile of crap, they’re going to throw it back at your melon.

This.

Sensitive people are annoying, trying to appease them and constant tact as to not “upset” them gets old.

I work with people like that.

If you want reasurance and to be coddled, go to Arfcom.

I for one am glad that the folks here are blunt and to the point. I have learned a lot here and I am grateful for it.

we don’t all have to stand together in the same place. as mentioned before, gun owners are a very diverse group, with many different reasons for owning those guns. M4C is a more focused forum, with a slant towards the technical side. as it grows, new sections are added, but only if those new categories align with the original intent of the forum.
not wanting certain types of discussions on this forum isn’t ‘unfriendly’ - it’s just that they may be outside the original focus of this forum. the best way for someone new to determine what’s appropriate is to spend some time reading, and seeing what goes and doesn’t.
the best analogy i can think of is going to the SHOT show vs. a regular gun show to get your information from. i see M4C as more of the SHOT show, where there isn’t as much extraneous information to sort through (if you know which sections to stick to at SHOT, of course). the quality of M4C can be attributed to its focus. deviating too far from that may cause that focus to be lost.

Yep. Shooting guns != the special olympics. We aren’t all winners and not all guns are just as good by because they are trying.

I’ve not been on the two way range but can’t imagine why you would want to prepare for it by making people feel better about a gun that may or may not save their life because your sample of 1 supposedly is nuclear bomb proof.