Orkan, or anyone else very knowledgable on Shooter. The other day I took my 300WM out to 1400 yards. It was exactly 14mils with 208 AMAX bullets. As always, when I run Shooter, its a little off…it said 12 mils. I’m sure it was user error.
So what is the best way to true it up? I wish I could put, 14 mils is the number. But I go in and play with velocity to make it match. If I do this, will the other calculations be correct? i.e. 700 yards in my shooter app be on? It ended up being 2775fps for what its worth.
Or is there a better way? I have not chrono the load yet. It was rainy as hell that day so I didn’t pull out the chrono. Rain was coming and going.
Something is off if you’re out 2 mils. Either your MV is wrong, your BC is entered incorrectly, and/or your env settings are all fucked up. The maximum error I’ve found with Shooter once I got all those errors addressed was .3 mils at 1000.
Shooter is DEAD ON to the exact 10th of a mil for me out to past 2000yds with my 338… so for you to be that far off, you aren’t putting in proper data.
Everything must be exact, and you must take your readings exactly with devices that you are 100% certain in their accuracy.
Temp, must be dead on to the degree.
Velocity, and BC of the bullet must be dead nuts.
Distance to target must be exact.
Prior to getting a vectronix range finder, I often wondered why my trajectory was off. Turns out it wasn’t off. My trajectory was perfect, it’s simply that I was dialing in the wrong range. This can happen with any of the major variables.
For me to help you figure out exactly what is going on… I’ll need your exact variables that you entered in to get that shooting solution. Everything.
Your ammo profile, your rifle profile, and all of the individual data entered in the environmental fields. You can post them as screenshots if you wish.
Something in your setup is way wrong for you to be off by 2 mils at that distance. You can’t use the “pulled data” for your environmental. You must input it manually with an accurate device. (kestrel) If you fuck with the velocity, then your curve will be all jacked up and it will just hurt you in the long run. You MUST chrono your load with a VERY accurate chrono if you plan to be on at that distance. Either an Ohler 35p or a PVM-21, or better.
“Lowlight”
You can calibrate most software and is simple enough too do.
Some of the elements in the video “Magpul” are correct for other software, like actually shooting to a range that puts the round around 1300fps. (example)
The steps are simple enough, calibrate your scope and if necessary adjust the software using the sight offset, click value, etc. This will work with most software to include the iPhone Apps.
Then, calculate actual drop. You can start at 300 yards to begin. At this range you can adjust your BC if necessary. The BC will move based on the rifle shooting it. For example BulletFlight has an option in the utilities area to adjust BC based on Drop. it will give you a new G1 or G7 which you can then input into your data section.
Lastly you can calibrate the drop out to 800 yards like the video. Checking at distance is the final step, but you should have at least choreographed your load to start with, if you haven’t then some software does have functions to adjust it based on drop.
Certain software has a DK function to bend the curve, this is used in place of adjusting the BC or MV, so you can do it a number of ways with a number of different software solutions, not just the Horus. Remember he was hired by Horus in the beginning to work and sell Horus methods and products, so of course they are not going to inform you of other methods.
Calibrating the system like above I have taken software like Field Firing Solutions and Patagonia LB3 out to distances beyond 2000 yards with very successful hit rates. Inside 1500m the first round hits where more consistent than when you didn’t do it, and at 1000 yards and in it was too easy with a rifle like a 338LM.
The system calibration should be:
Blah Blah Blah. Anything that long written by Frank “Lowlight” Galli is not worth reading (so I didn’t).
Whatever he’s saying, why not just enter a good G7 Litz BC into Shooter, accurate environmentals, and and accurate MV to start with? It’s so simple and if you enter accurate inputs, you WILL get accurate results. There’s no reason to do anything else.
I sucked it up and read Lowlight’s piece. The one useful thing he’s saying is to make sure your optic’s click values are true. No kidding. Who DOESN’T do this as part of a basic function check? If not, fix it with the elevation correction factor input field.
After that, put accurate data into Shooter and get accurate results. The end.
then he would know that good G7 data is not available for all bullets… litz didnt do every match bullet, nor new bullets…
he would also know, that 90% of the home shooters dont do any tracking tests, they pull the scope out of the box and hope its right… not to mention, how many users out there had the “guy at the gun counter” mount it… so your lucky if its even on straight… i can go on and on, but honestly, look no farther then some of the questions posted in this forum as to the fact that most people have no formal training, so things some people take for granted in knowing, others have no idea…
Without straying too far off topic, and a PM is certainly welcome, what’s the deal with the dislike of Frank Galli? I don’t run around in precision circles enough to know what’s going on, and prefer to stay in my lane so I’m in the dark here.
The G7 for the 208 A-MAX (which is the specific round in question for this thread) is 0.324. If you put good input data into Shooter you’ll get good data on the other side. So the whole thing with Lowlight talking about adjusting the BC input will get the OP nowhere. If you’re getting “garbage out” from a Litz G7 BC it means you’re putting “garbage in.”
A tracking test is a basic, step 1, out of the box test. Of course if your clicks are off your firing solutions will also be off. This is superfluous information.
What I’m really speaking against is the fudding around with a perfectly good Litz BC.
Not a bad article on the whole, BUT (there’s always a but)…
[i]"Understand from this discussion that no ballistic program can produce an output sufficiently accurate to guarantee a first-round hit at ranges beyond a few hundred yards.
When someone says that their un-tuned ballistic program was “right on at 1000 yards”, I generally conclude that if they are telling the truth, they were lucky enough to have offsetting errors."[/i]
i do things slightly differently for 3 reasons: 1 i point my bullets, which means the bullets no longer have litz’ BC and 2 i don’t trust chronos anymore and 3 i have three different 1000 yard ranges within an hour drive.
my guess is not many people calibrate their chronographs. they probably just by a cheap one and hope, or get an expensive one and appeal to the brand name. (if it cost that much money, it MUST be right! right?)
so… I simply get a 100 yard zero, then shoot at 1000 yards until i’m satisfied in my dope and note the density altitude. then i shoot a few intermediate ranges. then i back into the combination of BC and FPS that match the data. Sometimes, i’ll use unpointed ones so that i know the BC, and shoot 1000 yards which lets me solve for the unknown velocity. once i know velocity, i’ll point them and shoot again to solve for my new pointed BC.
a0cake, also, litz suggests when you zero the data in your app, and your are zeroing under 300y, do not enter ANY enviro data, just shut it off, only use currant weather data for making the shots after.
