I had somebody on another forum tell me that Kyle Lamb and LAV confirmed that Delta is now ditching the G22 to go BACK to the expensive customized 1911s. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why they would ever do this, seeing as why the original reason for going Glock was cost. And frankly, I have a hard time believing they had THAT many problems with the G22. Just wanted to see what you guys thought.
Aiden
P.S. I also posted this in the ask LAV forum, I’ll report back soon.
I’d imagine the individual Soldier in CAG will be able to pick their weapon within reason. Both the 1911 and G22 would be within reason.
I think the G22/light combination is a real problem. Combine that with the fact that a properly set up 1911 is nearly impossible to beat, I can see why the best of the best would want 1911s.
I really don’t care that much who shoots what outside of academic knowledge, but, out of curiosity, do their 1911s have light rails?
I know the last guns used before they switched over to Glocks had some sort of provision for lights (Dawson rail?). I would imagine their current guns would have the same or better.
That being said I have ZERO information on whether they have switched back. Given the current drama surrounding Glock reliability it certainly makes sense that if you are going to use a gun you have to tinker with you might as well have a 1911.
If we’re honest, this will probably be the case for all of us for a while.
Okie John
I’d need to see a reference on this. In budget cutting times a. $500 pistol is a lot better than to wear in a holster and Brest around that a 3-4k custom 1911.
Mag capacity is the other reason I don’t they would switch. They have been in almost permeant conflict of more that 10 years. Gone or the tines of gun myths. If you are do A DA hot as Delta and your primary goes down, you switch to your secondary. If you secondary on his 7 rounds compared to 15 in a Glock 22, or 17 in a Glock 9.
I wonder what kind of round counts they put through their pistols? I know Glock is a good gun, but a steel frame 1911 ought to last longer, or am I full of shit? If a 1911 has a longer service life, that would offset the additional cost.
And I don’t see magazine capacity being a factor.
If true, I bet it’s the superior trigger of the 1911 over the Glock more than anything.
This is an interesting interview with larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn talking about their experience with the 1911 and working on a replacement with H&K (the HK45). This is some food for thought from a couple of guys with a lot of experience with the 1911 platform.
http://pistol-training.com/articles/hk45-interview-with-ken-hackathorn-and-larry-vickers
The Glock 22 service life should be 50,000-60,000 rounds. I am not sure how much work a military armorer would have to do to a 1911 to make it run that long.
Some LEO agencies have had issues with lights attached to their Glock 22 pistols. That issue has been addressed.
Does anyone know what load is being shot through the Glock 22 by the military?
I really love the 1911 platform, but can see why forward thinking people would consider switching to something else.
Mag capacity is the other reason I don’t they would switch. They have been in almost permeant conflict of more that 10 years. Gone or the tines of gun myths. If you are do A DA hot as Delta and your primary goes down, you switch to your secondary. If you secondary on his 7 rounds compared to 15 in a Glock 22, or 17 in a Glock 9.
I guess you have to pick your myth. For some, it is capacity over all “spray n’ pray.” For others it is bullet size/weight “they all fall to ball.”
I land somewhere in the middle. For years, I was a big. 9mm guy. I got into guns in the late 80s when wonder nines were everything. Of course, there were some high profile incidents and then everybody went to .40 when the 10mm was determined to be too much for most folks. I then noticed when the wars started everybody seemed to want a .45 again. SEALs went so far as to adopt the HK45c right in the middle of all the nonsense. The service branches were marching towards adopting a new .45 pistol when everything wound down and the money ran out in 08. I understand a lot of the trainer guys are recommending 9mm now. I understand that, if you are going to ask gold to bring 1000 rounds of ammo to a class it is a hell of a lot easier to get folks to bring $14 a box 9mm than $22 a box .45. It comes down to money.
Anyway, if these guys go back to 1911s it is because the 1911 is the easiest gun to shoot well. As they were pre .40 cal I am sure they will still be running them with 10 round mags, just in case.
I was in the Marines in the mid/late 60’s & we were using some very old 1911’s, (Maybe the same ones my Dad used in WWII & his Dad used in WWI), that were obviously cobbled together from spare parts. They worked. All the time.
I usually carry my G17 or G23 due to the legendary Glock reliability, but if I want to be honest about it, I’ve had more problems with my Glocks than I’ve had with any of my three 1911’s. Two of the 1911’s have thousands more rounds thru them than any of my Glocks.
As far as capacity goes, I’ve been in firefights, (Long ago!), & I don’t ever remember wishing I had less ammo. So the Glocks have the 1911 beat there, but if my initial load of 9 rounds in my 1911, plus two more 8 round back up mags aren’t enough; then I need close air support, not more ammo.
Now that I think about it, I may change back to my TRP for EDC.
I bet they saw the Marine’s M45A1 and were jealous.
Yeah I’ve heard that the G22/light combo causes some real issues. However, I’ve also heard that Glock claims that the edition of a special mag spring eliminates the problems completely. I don’t own a G22, so I don’t know if this is true. Anyway, if you reference this article: http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2011/09/12/delta-force-and-the-glock/ the operator states that the 1911s were simply costing too much, thus the Glock was adopted. I just have a hard time believing that the Glocks ran so terribly that they were willing to go back to spending a ton of money on 1911s. I don’t really care what they use in the end, I just think it’s an interesting topic.
FWIW, I have read things Paul Howe has said comparing the two. He said he liked 1911s a lot but, when in Delta, they had an assortment of armorers on hand to keep them running, something the average civilian or even SWAT member doesn’t have.
Also, I thought I remembered reading that the main impetus behind the switch was the lack of reliability in sandy environments of their tight-tolerance 1911s.
I think the Gen 4 G22s run fine with lights.
I would imagine that 99.5% of these folks “work” is with a rifle. A pistol, while not a side thought is not as important as a rifle. However, it must work when you need it. Hence 1911. Just my worthless opinion.
Who cares what they use???
Clearly, you do not. Clearly others do. Why not post in threads YOU care about?
The Glock 22 weapon light issues have been fixed with current generation magazines. The 50-60K service life, however, is generous. My first G22 duty pistol self destructed well short of 20K. Maybe the new Colt USMC 1911 changed their minds? It seems like the the HK45 would be a more obvious choice.