CA police chief call for open carry ban

Though I normally do not support open carry advocates, I feel that the guys in CA are doing what they can with the privileges they still have to raise awareness.

Article

East Bay police chief calls for open-carry ban

By Josh Richman
Monday, April 12th, 2010 at 5:58 pm in Assembly, Legislation, Public safety.

An East Bay police chief will be in Sacramento on Wednesday to advocate for a bill that would crack down on the “open carry” movement, in which gun enthusiasts say they’re exercise their Second Amendment rights and protecting their personal safety by carrying unloaded firearms in plain sight in public places.

Emeryville Police Chief Ken James said he’ll be representing the California Police Chiefs Association, which has thrown its support behind AB 1934, the bill being unveiled this week by Assemblywoman Lori Saldaña, D-San Diego. Saldaña amended the bill last week so that it would, subject to exceptions, make it a misdemeanor to openly carry an unloaded handgun in specified public areas. Open-carry advocates say it’s a further abridgment of their Constitituonal rights.

Open carry has been an issue here in the East Bay and across California for several months now; some businesses have adopted policies barring customers from bringing firearms inside.

James said his concerns about the open-carry movement are twofold. “One is officer safety – this puts an officer between a rock and hard spot. Do we treat the gun as ‘Oh, it’s just an open carry’ or do we treat it as were trained to do from day one at the academy that it’s possibly a danger?”

The other is an issue of public safety, he said. “If the assumption is being made that the guns aren’t loaded … and if I see you walking down the street with that nice handgun … and I have my loaded gun and I decide to take your unloaded gun from you, I have the advantage. It’s an open target for people to be robbed of their unloaded handguns.”

“All the polls I’ve seen, the average citizen is uneasy seeing a gun. We have always in Emeryville (Police Department) had a policy that when you are not in uniform, you do not expose your weapon, simply because people don’t feel comfortable seeing them,” he said, noting plainclothes officers and detectives must ensure they’re wearing something over their sidearms even on the hottest days.

He said the California Police Chiefs Association did a statewide survey to gauge its members’ concern about the open-carry movement, and what the best approach would be to address that concern. One possibility was a statewide ban. Another was local choice and control by city or county ordinance, but James said “that creates a lot of issues for the poor citizen who needs to know 58 counties and more than 500 municipalities that all might have something different.”

A third option was changing state law to give officers more authority to check on weapons and the people who carry them. James said all an officer can do right now is demand to see whether the gun is unloaded; the officer can’t ask for ID to see if the person is legally allowed to have the weapon (convicted felons and mentally ill people are forbidden from carrying, for example) and can’t run the gun’s serial number to see if it has been stolen from its rightful owner.

“By far, the survey of membership was ‘ban it completely.’ It just makes it simpler,” James said.

Open-carry advocates clearly disagree. As Walter Stanley of Livermore told my colleagues a few months ago, when everyone carries a gun, misreading situations is less likely: “We want not just police and criminals to be carrying guns, but law-abiding citizens as well. … An armed society is a polite society.”

Comedy gold! Did I read this right? The chief wants to ban the practice outright as a favor (my word) to those who open-carry, since it’d be maybe kinda hard to know about the various requirements/legalities concerning open-carry in the various counties…? How thoughtful!:rolleyes: I am gonna go out on a limb and say that this chief is against CCW (except for his sworn personnel, that is. maybe.) too.

i’m so glad there aren’t a lot of Army bases in california…i’d never want to PCS there. That place is so damn close to being communist it isnt even funny

What’s really funny is there is no reported problem with open carry in CA other than people whining about the terrifying sight of an unloaded weapon.

Sad state of affairs over here and it was only a matter of time. It really is a love/hate relationship I have with CA. But uprooting the family is not an option at this time.


Tactical.

I don’t like or recommend open carry.

-but-

I don’t like controls on it or laws that ban it even more.

Im with you dude. glad I got East coast

One more in a long line of police administrators that can go fornicate themselves with a cactus.

Precisely. Not like this or any other gun ban sceme will stop violent felons from doing whatever they want.

I’ve got a solution to the problem for Chief James; CCW for all non felon citizens.

I agree with the fact that it is an officer/citizen safety issue. Lets say “officer” comes across Mr. dumy who is excercising his right to open carry, sure he is following the law by maintining an unloaded firearm. The officer in the other hand has no way of confirming this until he makes physical contact with the weapon. Officer tells Mr dumy dont reach for your weapon, Mr dumy says “oh its not loaded” as he reaches for it, Officer does what every peace officer is trained from day one in the academy, draws down on Mr. dummy and yells drop the weapon, MR. dumy is stuborned because he knows hes done nothing wrong since his weapon is unloaded and refuses to drop it. Officer fears for his life nad assumes Mr. dummy is a threat to his life. Officer shoots Mr. dummy… well you all get the picture.

Are you for real? Every time I read one of your posts I cringe. You seem to think that only LE are worthy of carrying and having firearms.

If you are stupid enough to reach for your firearm when approached by LE (for any reason) then you shouldn’t be carrying. Common sense will dictate that you allow the officer to “investigate”.

You need to give the average citizens who are also gun owners a little more credit than you have been. There are plenty of smart non-LE types out there.

remember, common sense is not so common. I know most of us in this forum, wether you are LE or not have their minds in the right place when it comes to firearms, thats why we come here to self improve our knowledge collectively. I personally have come across some very “stupid” people who carry openly a fireamr and are “stupid” enough to reach for it in my precense. Their defense is “I was just going to hand it to you” Usually when they see a barrel pointed at their direction they tend to stop reaching, but does it really need to get to that level. The point is some people, not all, need to be educated on some basic common sense things when it involves firearms and contact with police. This is why I am a big fan of CHLs. Every person I have come across with a CHL has done what they were trained to do when a police officer aproaches them, no chl holder has gotten hurt in my precense yet.

People seem to think that LEOs are these people that feel only they should carry and no one else, and the constitution only aplies to them. Let me go ahead and let you know that I as LE had to give up many of the rights that most of you citizens have in order to protect and serve. For example, the right to carry what ever firearm of your choosing. I can now only carry a fireamr aproved by the department, including when off duty.

Well your CHL/CCW argument really doesn’t hold water. In Washington State there is not training requirement at all to get a CCW. You simply pay the fee and submit the paperwork. How often do we hear about police shooting citizens because they didn’t follow procedures? IIRC, Oregon also does not require any test or demonstrated ability.

Alaska and Vermont also have no CCW requirenment and people aren’t being shot by the police on a daily basis.

Also, I am a big fan of Darwinism. If you are stupid enough not to heed the officers instructions when he says “stop” or “don’t make any sudden moves” while you are armed then so be it.

From the article it is hard to tell if he is against concealed carry, he might fully support it. Personally, I do not think people exercising their right to open carry unloaded is going to help anything, and just seems to be hurting them. I really do not see anything positive about living in that state, I honestly have no desire to ever even visit it.

Yeah there is no training or quals here in PA either, just pass the background check and pay up.

CA, my former state of residence.

I hate the Peoples’ Republik.

Boo freaking hoo. Don’t ever join the military.