Building first carbine, what do you suggest?

I am getting ready to build my first carbine. I would like you suggestions as this seems to be a very knowlagable community. Here is what I’m looking for:

I am on a budget (arnt we all) roughly $1200-$1500 in the long term (about a year)
I want to piece this together, from new and or used quality parts
I value dependability over other things (such as ROF)
I dont care about trigger pull, added weight, ugly castings, I want this to be pure function.
I am also cheap :slight_smile:

I am building this carbine as it has been on my want to do list for a while. I plan on using it to take to the range on weekends and maybe get into competition shooting. I plan on getting different chambered uppers in the future (.22 LR, 9mm, maybe a lakeside machine beltfed .22 upper). What do you guys suggest from experience, also some dont do’s as well. Thanks.

Well if you want high quality, buy LMT uppers and lowers seperately. This will give you one of the best fighting AR built for under $1k.

C4

Only real answer.

But have you ammunition and mags for it?

Remember, form follows function.

This is a tricky subject, as the competition available to participate in with an AR is widely varied. There’s IPSC 3-gun, various local practical rifle, Hi-Power and other long-range competitions, etc.

I run a monthly practical rifle match here in SE Florida, and while an IPSC 3-gun setup would probably serve someone well, a Hipower-style rifle would be pretty useless.

Think about what you really want the rifle you’re building to do, and prioritize those wants. For example, I consider my rifles to be fighting guns first and foremost, hunting guns second, and competition and training guns third. The amount of use they get though is in exactly the inverse order. I’m willing to sacrifice some competitiveness in order to have a good hunting/fighting gun.

With your budget of $1500 you could buy a complete LMT by buying it in parts for $1k and throw an Aimpoint/Larue mount combo on it for another $500. Take that gun out and shoot the hell out of it to figure out what you like and want/need.

Of course! We have thousands of rounds of PRVI in both 55gr and 62gr and NHMTG, D&H and Magpul Mags in stock.

C4

Competition is a far off thing for me. I am just curious about it now.

I am looking to build a reliable shooter, even if accuracy, consistency, and reload times suffer due to this. I am looking to built a tank of a carbine, wont break, jam, wear out (with proper cleaning and care of course). This rifle will see boxes and boxes of cheap to mid range ammo, and must be able to keep on trucking.

I stayed away from answering this thread for that reason.

Without priorities, there is no single gun that does everything the best.

Priorities determine what you build.

Better to take a carbine class or two and figure out how to fix it when it
breaks,jams,wears out than have someone build you one that you figure
wont do any of these things at the most opportune time…

LMT sounds like the factory ride you are lookin for…

But if you can find a Bravo Company mid length …grab it…or a Sabre…

Just make sure you got quality fire control parts…properly staked bolt carrier keys
and a top tier quality bolt.

Not to step on any one builder’s toes…but the three guys here I have dealt with most…Grant of G&R Tactical, Randal of AR15 Barrels, and Paul of Bravo Company
have built me great running carbines and rifles…and supplied top quality parts

They have also stood by with to notch customer service and advice and are honest
as the day is long…

imo

Question was for the OP.:wink:

Submariner- I have several surplus M-4 mags, some colt and some parsons. I have no ammo currently.

I am trying to clarify what I am looking into building as I keep doing more reading up. I am new to the M-4, I am going for a quality build, extremely soild, but a cheap shooter (ie, cheap ammo, and lots of it). I am looking into the Vltor MUR upper w/ FA because it looks extremely soild (I dont plan on needing the FA, but its nice to have if its ever needed). I dont mind spending a bit more for quality parts, but not spending alot more for only marginally better quality.

I am aware of the tooling costs involved in an M-4 build, and while I dont think I will be in a position where I will be using the tooling after this other than odds and ends stuff, It would be nice to be familar with the workings and uses to help understand even more about gunsmithing.

I would like to know suggestions for what internals. Ie, what type of bolt, manufacturer, and why. I would like to know why you suggest something so I can learn from that and choose what and why for myself. I am trying not to be the uneducated buyer here. I am not starting this build asap at the moment hence of this. I am mainly looking at what to get and why. Then I can start the build and hopefully learn alot from this experence. Thanks for all who have responded,.

If it were my build I think I would look into a m16 bolt carrier group by LMT or BCM because the added weight is a plus and like someone said in a previous post “if it is not broken then why fix it” can be had for about 130.00.
Depending on how much you want completed or how much you want to do yourself then you can not go wrong with BCM or LMt on the upper or the lower. If you want to build the lower completly then truthfully in my opinion it does not matter that much which of the major makes you get as you will be putting quality parts in yourself.

I highly reccomend a crome lined barrel and chamber in anhd depending on what you want you can get a 14.5 and perm attach a longer flash supressor, go with a 14.7 and perm attach an a2 bird cage, or go with a 16". The twist rate all depends on what you are shooting. 1:7 works well with anything above 50 grain up to 77 gran and maybe higher. If you are shooting 70 grain or less than 1:9 is an option. If you want as close to an M4 you can get go with a 1:7.

If you are planning on rails then you should decide on if you want free float or not. For non free float you can not go wrong with either MI17 or KAC RAS. The Mi is far cheaper and I have heard a lot of good about them and a bit of bad.

As far as triger group I think you should go with a standard or 2 sstage and not a drop in. I have not really heard good things about the drop in triger groups.

If i were to personally going to build a rifle I would go LMT as they are some of the best I have seen and I like all my parts to match. If I wer going to buy an upper and a lower then I would also go LMT or BCM if available. I think Colt is overpriced when you can get LMT or BCM parts for less at same if not better quality.

It might be cheaper to buy a complete upper rather than part it together yourself.

Generally this is not the case as you will avoid the FET by building in parts.

C4

1012,

Rob has a sticky at the top of the General Discussion forum that contains a chart that compares the major AR brands, you may want to check it out if you haven’t already. You can read it here.

You want to look for properly staked gas keys as this adds to reliability, good expamples of this can be seen various places around the board. Colt, FN, LMT, and Bravo Co (maybe others too), typically have the proper gas key staking, others like Bushmaster, RRA, Armalite, etc may need to additional staking.

You want proper staking on the receiver extension if you are going with a collapsible stock, most here also prefer a Mil-Spec extension for their collapsible stock as it is said these are stronger with better thread engagement. Most of the aftermarket collapsibles require a Mil-Spec extension. The brands listed above tend to apply in this area too.

For your bolt, you would want an MPI tested and shot peened bolt with the proper extractor insert and possibly an o-ring, for best dependability. I just replace my factory RRA BCG with a Bravo Co FA BCG for the above reasons. The Bravo Co and LMT are everything a BCG should be and less expensive than I could find a new Colt one for.

For the barrel, chrome lining may help increase barrel life and make cleaning easier, but may not be as accurate as a SS barrel. There are several different twist rates to choose from. The M4 normally is 1x7 which will stabilize the longer, heavier bullets. Mine is a 1x9 RRA factory barrel, which stabilizes most bullets, it does better with lighter bullets than a 1x7 but not as well with heavier bullets. There are other twists available too like 1x8 and 1x12. There is a military standard for the barrel steel too, but are several good choices too. A 5.56 chamber may be more reliable for you than a .223. The top tier manufactures tend to have 5.56 chambers, while many of the others tend to have .223, althought they may be marked differently. There is also the Wylde chamber, but I don’t know much about it personally.

Many prefer M4 feed ramps on their upper receiver. These ramps are extended further than rifle ramps into the receiver for better feed reliability. Some people may argue their need. The use of a reciever with M4 ramps mandates the use of a barrel extension cut for M4 ramps too, but the reverse is not necessarily true. However, I would say if you want them, make sure both upper and barrel extension have them. My RRA does not have M4 feed ramps and runs fine. Some manufacturers do these ramps differently from others. I’ve heard that RRA dremels theirs after the upper is assembled. I spoke with them and they confirmed this, althought I never really got an answer as to why, just that that is how they do it. Some people feel that the exposed unanodized aluminum is bad. Mine is not cut like this so I can’t say one way or the other.

There are probably other things I am forgetting, but it pretty much boils down to this. I feel you can group AR’s into two groups Mil-Spec and Commercial. While commercial is not necessarily bad, you asked about the most reliable. The most reliable, or at least those with the features that most contribute to reliability, are what I’d call Mil-Spec (although I’m sure someone would argue with me about that too). And those that are closest tend to be LMT, Colt, Bravo Co, many custom builds, etc. Those that I would consider in the commercial group (those with commercial receiver extensions, non MPI bolts, maybe non “F” FSB, non chrome lined barrels, no M4 feed ramps, etc) are often Bushy, Armalite, RRA, Olympic, etc, however many of these may be offered in part or whole on certain models.

There are other things like buffer weight, springs, etc that can effect reliability. But as many have already suggested to you for the best bang for the buck out of the box you can’t go wrong with an LMT.

But piece together whatever you like, just make sure you know what to look for. My commercial RRA has run fine for me since day one. I assembled the lower and had ADCO build me the upper. I have since started replacing some of the parts we mentioned for better piece of mind and long term dependability. However, I never had a problem with it even before I started swapping, but then I don’t run my rifle REAL hard.

Good Luck!

-RD62

P.S. Almost forgot one of the things that may effect reliabilty most is the magazines you use. I just got some MagPul P-Mags, and so far they have been great! Light, inexpensive, good feeding, everything I could want. Their are inexpensive mags and then there are cheap mags. P-MAgs are inexpensive. Friends don’t let friends buy cheap mags!