I am considering a rock bottom budget build to test the quality of the lowest priced kits available, any thoughts on this?
Read some interesting threads on that other AR site;)
If you want a gun that will run, use quality parts.
I have a couple of good AR’s, was just thinking of doing this as an expirement project.
I am interested in seeing the quality of the parts in these kits and how the finished rifle will or won't run. Less than $500.00 to build complete including lower, shipping and FFL fees.
Well I guess you could try model 1, J&T, etc.
C4
You get exactly what you pay for… A guy on TOS posted about a cheap Aimpoint clone he bought and surprise… it didn’t work…
For a few bucks more you can buy a AR that runs reliable … You money…
Interesting experiment, you might considered getting a set of mics and measuring and photographing your good quality unit and the cheapo. Let us know how they are dimensionally, no way of knowing what the material is like ,of course.
I found kits ranging from $359 to $640.
My work gun is a Colt M4, and my personal guns are a Bushmaster M4 clone and 20" A2 clone so this project gun is just for giggles.
I will use a BCG from LMT though since I have one laying around already.
Do whatever you want.
I bought a cheap kit gun from model1. It has served two functions, teaching me troubleshooting on the AR platform, and saving extra wear and tear off my better guns. I’d say it has done both very well. It started out as a sub 500$ gun, but ended up getting another 50$ in parts to make it work correctly.
It doesn’t get much use as I’d rather be shooting my better guns. I mostly use it for letting a new shooters blast away. It currently has about 2000-2500 rounds through it. Worked well for the last 1500-2000 after I got the bugs worked out.
Just don’t have any expect it to be a match grade ultra reliable high quality ultimate battle rifle. It was a bit of an experiment on my part, and I’m rather apathetic about the whole deal with it. It was probably 50-60% of what I could have made a much more higher quality beater gun out of. If I had to do it again, I probably would go higher quality and just have another good rifle than one I don’t particularly trust.
UVvis- interesting perspective, there are kits from RRA that are a bit more but should produce results similar to a “factory” gun I would think.
Anyone else have any good or bad experiences with this type of project “frankengun”.
Paradoc,
If you got all Rock River Arms parts, with a factory assembled upper, you would basically have a factory RRA rifle.
To elaborate a little more, if you are doing it to save money, then it isn’t worth it. If I hadn’t had piles of spare parts laying around (OCD, I know), it would have cost me more than 50$ to fix everything.
I just wouldn’t use this type of rifle for anything other than recreation. With mine, I figure I will keep it as a strictly recreational use item. As parts fail and wear out, I will replace them with better parts. This will be a long term ongoing project, and everytime I go out, I’m honestly expecting something to fall off or break on me.
If it was going to be your only rifle or if you are tight on your play funds, then something like this is a bad choice. You just have to know what you are getting.
What annoys most folk is when people build these kits and;
assume this is as good as brand xxxxxxx,
waste others time, money, and range time because their only toy is junk,
call someone else foolish for spending twice as much on a “name brand” AR,
don’t know any better and buy a POS kit gun thinking they are getting a great deal,
build a bunch of these kits and never learn how to use the darn things effectively,
there are likely other reasons as well.
I wouldn’t go rock bottom either. Just build a basic CMT/Stag rifle- and then as stated by UVvis, as your parts wear out, upgrade them.
My first AR I bought as a complete rifle…RRA…what a mistake. A) I’ll never buy a RRA again, B) If I ever buy a complete rifle again it will be a Colt.
I’m learning the hard($$$$)way.:mad:
I have a Colt HBar A2, and a Bushy M4 type.
This was an idea I got from reading a thread over at ARFcom, it would definitely be for nothing more than plinking. Any guns that I need for serious work are issued by my employer.
The intent of the project is to see if a functional rifle can be built with the “budget” kits and then shoot it to death to see if it will function reliably.
Post a range and build report on the process. Kind of like Mythbusters…
Which parts sets do you plan to test?
The LPK or the receivers or the Uppers…BCG or Barrels?
You could always buy one from everybody shoot a few billion rounds through them all
just to see which one goes TA first
But then you would only have one sample of each and that isnt really meaningful
data?
You would also need to test them in the jungle, the arctic,the desert and in the home
like any other appliance 
I have seen more than a few guys with budget (Model 1, J&T, and m-aparts) kits that ran reliably. Oddly enough these guys were also switched on to proper AR set-up and maintenance. They inspected the kits thoroughly before assembling the weapon and did a few inexpensive & smart upgrades before they fired a shot with it. Things like proper carrier key staking, CRANE o-ring, HD extractor spring & black insert, head space checking, chamber check all make a big difference. They also kept the weapon reasonably clean / very well lubed. Used quality mags (HK, USGI, C-Products) & ammo. These are the true reasons the weapons ran reliably.
It would be hard for me to actually recommend buying one of this kits, but if that’s all your budget allows they can be made to run. It just takes more work because the reason these kits are cheaper cuts down on the margin for error for a reliable weapon. You also have a higher percentage of just getting a lemon right off the bat.
I cashed out my LE retirement, so the money isn’t an issue.
I could buy a <insert name brand> factory gun at any time, but this was fueled by a discussion of one side saying the kits are great and the other saying it was blasphemy basically.
This is more for curiousity than anything else.
I’d put a JT gun against anything out there. Just because they don’t break it off in you when you buy from them don’t make them inferior. The use the same parts and are suppliers for many of the big boys. They just don’t have the marketing snobbery some other builder/manufacturers have.
Mitch
Really? Please provide specs on barrel steel used, bolt steel used, pics of how they stake carrier key, which extractor insert do they use (blue or black), type of barrel extension, type of FSB used, twist rates available and if they HPT/MP test their bolts and barrels.
C4
BBL steel is shaw (sp) just like the colt bbls
bolt steel is same as colt uses
don’t have pics, of that sorry
extractor insert is …hmmm I can’t remember the color, but they do use one.
bbl extension is same as colt
FSB is same a Colts
twist rates, you name it, they make it.
BBLs and bolts are done just like Colt uses. MPC etc…
Uppers are contract uppers (cero, etc…)
Carry handles are also main stream
Oh and get this, they supply the Bushy, and others BS
The part kits are the EXACT same parts Colt uses (I’ve checked them)
The DS lowers are made in Conn.
What else do you need besides arrogance about what you have? They just don’t have the pricing.
So your telling me that these barrels are made out of 11595?? If so, please provide proof of this (cert).
M4 barrel extensions huh, again, a pick would be nice.
I am glad to hear that they use an extractor insert! How bout the color of it and a pick of the carrier key would be nice as well.
What are Colt bolts made out of? Just as an FYI, Colt states that they make their BCG’s in house so I am not sure how JT would be getting them.
FSB, should have an “F” on the side. Pic as proof would be nice.
I hate to call you out on this stuff, but the JT kits I have seen were far from anything Colt would produce.
C4
Grant I don’t mind you calling me on this stuff, as long as you don’t mind being called on stuff as well.
On the front end, there are no M4’s in the civilian world in the truest military sense.
With that said I called Dennis to confirm what I had been saying.
The bolts are “FN contract” his words. I apologize I was incorrect.
I would have to get a pic of the FSB, I have a colt M4 on my gun (I couldn’t reisist for $300) I will have to get to the shop which won’t be today for the FSB. I just went and looked at my AUTHENTIC from Iraq M4 and I’ll be darned, no “F” on the FSB, hmm, I guess I don’t have a real one. It has 3 symbols, one of which is a “B”, there is a circle in the middle. Sorry I can’t get the cert for you, but I can give you some finger prints if necessary.
Next are the extensions, I miss understsood the extension question, and no they don’t have the M4 extensions. Now I also ask you to tell me which of the big names offers the M4 extensions. And aren’t they a feature that only the colt M4can have? Please correct me if I’m wrong. I have been known to be before.
Next is the color of the insert (why is the color so important, so when you are rocking and rolling with a semi you get reliable extraction??)
I’ll be darned but I can’t remember I think the insert is blue. But seriously, if these things, the insert, the “F” on the FSB, and the BC are your claims to fame and justify the extra $300 or so, hmm.
I’m not going to backpedal on any of this. The M4s from the big builders don’t have many of the features you are citing. I know bushy doesn’t, RRA doest IIRC, just to name a couple I’m fairly sure of.
As far as the bbls, these are the VERY SAME BBLS THAT COLT IS USING. And if you will also say that Colt is making their own lowers that isn’t true and I know that for a fact. With that said, I seriously doubt that the are making the BC. And I would like just as much proof of what you say as you ask from me.
Now I would like to know the quantities and configurations of the JT guns you have seen.
Please, please, please tell me the manufacturers that are doing exactly what you are asking from JT. Then compare the prices of the onesies and twosies, versus the mass manufacturing.
I would like to apologize for hijacking this thread. I have been on the boards under this name TNRonin for many years, I try like hell not to be a blow hard, but quite frankly, the attitude of the “washed” towards the “un-washed” really puts me and others off. Flame suit on.