I know this question has been asked numerous times here. I know because I’ve read most of those threads from searching. However, I’m wondering if someone can point me to something more definitive and hopefully measured. There are lots of generalities and theory thrown around, because we have all read it on the internet…
I’m trying to decide between SS410 and BFH for my next 16" middy build that will wear a 4X ACOG and be used most of the time between 200-600 yards. (So I won’t be shooting 1000 yard groups, and I don’t have a 10x Nightforce or anything).
I already have two Bravo uppers, both in BFH. I’ve used both to make consistent hits at 500 yards on 18" targets with ball M193 ammo. So I have the meager skills to hit at those distances, but I want to sharpen those skills and get better.
I know there are no guarantees, but can you point me to somewhere, or does anyone have some objective answers to these questions?
1) What is the accurate life expectancy of a stainless barrel before it will consistently lose, say, 0.5 MOA in accuracy? What about 1.0-1.5 MOA in accuracy? I understand that BFH should hold its accuracy for “more rounds” than the SS, but I’d like to put an approximate number number on that.
2) What is the average accuracy difference out of the box for a BFH vs a SS in MOA?
You can probably guess my summarized question, “Is the shortened accurate barrel life of SS worth the gain in accuracy over BFH for my purpose?”
For me the answer would be no. I would need more magnification (8-10x), match ammo and probably a lighter breaking aftermarket trigger to justify the somewhat shorter barrel life, heavier weight and higher cost of the stainless barrel.
How much something is worth is very subjective. For me, a stainless match barrel is worth it for that extra accuracy. But I reload and shoot 100% match bullets through all of my match barrels, which makes a huge difference.
I think that I would stick with the generalized comments as to life and relative precision. How often you shoot, how often you clean, matters as much as what you shoot down a barrel. I have easily gotten match barrel accuracy from several chromelined lightweight’s by matching ammunition (reloads) to the barrel. Now at 5,000 logged rounds that 1/2 minute degradation is appearing. Further the TAO1NSN ACOG has for me been no trouble on man sized steel to 700 yards. As pointed out elsewhere, quality trigger might be worth more than the questionable difference’s in barrel type.
I think that I would stick with the generalized comments as to life and relative precision.
That’s all well and good, but I don’t have a good sense if those generalities are talking about
“There’s a 0.5 MOA difference out of the box between the SS410 and BHF” vs. “There’s a 3.5 MOA difference out of the box between the SS410 and BHF.”
and
“SS410 barrels will lose about 1 MOA for every 1000 rounds shot” vs. “SS410 barrel will lose about 1 MOA for every 10,000 rounds shot”.
Obviously I’m being a little extreme in my example verbiages, but I’m really hoping for something like the above to help me make my decision for my purposes.
There have been a few SS barrel shooters who’ve shown the lifespan decrease from an SS barrel to be negligible. I think Adco ran some crazy high round test a few years back.
So if you’re shooting slow fire enough to pick up hits at 200-600 yards, you’d be fine with a Stainless. As far as round counts, It really depends on your rate of fire. But I’d bet you could stay under 1.5 MOA well past 15k if you’re not doing mag dumps.
My take is if you can actually afford to shoot out a barrel, what’s 2-300 for another? Based on some people’s statements of how often and much they shoot, they go through 3-4 barrels a year—
And yes, a stated, heat is the killer. So much depends on the barrel quality, every one is different and maybe feedback as to the consistency of the ss ones in regards to accuracy. I sold the one SPR I had years ago when the standard BCM chrome lined barrel was so close in accuracy it wasn’t worth keeping the ss one. That ss was a Douglas 16" heavy. This BCM barrel is an oddity compared to other BCM’s I have.
Considering the fact that you already have two BCM CHF barrels, why not get the SS? For the purposes you’ve stated above, the SS barrel seems like a better choice to me. I can’t speak on the longevity of the BCM SS barrels because I have only owned one and did not put very many rounds through it but there have been plenty of documented cases of Noveske barrels with high round counts with little loss of accuracy. The BCM barrels are 410 vs 416 for Noveske so in theory they should outlast the Noveske barrels. I have plenty of rounds through Noveske SS barrels and believe them to be plenty durable for any situation I will ever use them for. I see no reason why the BCM barrels would be any less durable. I wish I had a better answer for you but there are too many variables to consider to give a definitive answer to what you’re asking.
This may not be exactly what you are looking for.
In 2010 I think, I was looking for a different barrel to use in a premium line of uppers. I ordered 12 different brands of barrels and tested each for accuracy using M193 and Black Hills 69gr ammo. Of course most shot the 69gr better compared to each other. Shooting the m193 between all of the barrels was unreal. A few barrels would shoot the M193 near 3/4" off the bench while others were 3-4" at 100 yds. The BCM 410 barrel I found out later was made by Criterion, at that time a division of Krieger. It was by far the most accurate with both brands of ammo. I borescoped all of the barrels, only the BCM was lapped. I checked the muzzles to find out all of them EXCEPT the 410 BCM was larger than spec. A .219" inspection pin would slide in the bore and stop right where the 1/2" threads on the muzzle stopped.
IMO if I wanted accuracy I would go with the 410SS barrel.
Thanks for your input, I’ve seen much of the same (or similar). A lot of manufacturers have put out items that are below what I would call acceptable. I’ve had good success with Krieger variations and Lilja 3 groove barrel blanks properly fitted for their consistency. Many others are “all over the place”. If a “match” barrel is needed, I tend to fall back on those.
I would tend to say that the far majority of AR-15 shooters would be better served with a lighter profile CHF-CL barrel barrel than a “match” one though.
Hell, I have a 16" 1/9 chrome lined barrel that will put my 77gr handloads in .75moa @ 100yds. Any further, I don’t know… but I was thoroughly impressed.
Mark hit the spot, when you notice degradation to the point it bothers you on any barrel spend a few bucks and replace it. I believe it will take you some time to get to that point. As recommended invest in a trigger.
While it is not an apples to apples comparison, I have a 12.5" Centurion Arms (CHF by the same vendor that BCM uses) and an 11.5" BCM SS410 barrel. I have between 3 and 4k rounds through the CA barrel (estimated, not documented) and it currently shoots around 3/4 MOA with FMGM 77gr and a Mk262 clone load. The BCM barrel has very few rounds through it so I suspect that it will break in a little as time goes on but it is just under 1 MOA with the same ammunition currently. However, I would expect the barrel’s accuracy to improve to roughly around the same as (if not slightly better than) the CA barrel and will recheck around 3K rounds. I fully expect this barrel to last 10k before I see any potential reduction in accuracy, based on my firing schedule.
The intent for both uppers is the same: general range fun, training classes, testing at work, etc. I plan on shooting it like a rental, not a precision gun.
To answer the OP’s overall question:
If all CHF barrels shot like the CA I have, then SS barrels would not be worth it to me. However, the previous 11.5" barrel I had was also CHF from a different vendor and I could not get it to go under 1 MOA with any ammo on several different range trips (got close a few times) so I decided to give the SS410 barrel a go. So far, it’s worth it to me.
Thanks for all the replies, and especially the few data points.
Is it terrible that what’s also factoring into my leanings is that I’m not fond of a shiny SS barrel? I don’t think the world is going to blow up tomorrow and we’ll all be Red Dawning it, but I keep those types of considerations in the back of my mind, just in case. I think if BCM had complete uppers listed with Keymod and their black ion bond SS barrels, I’d be pulling out the credit card right now.