Not in the eyes of the state that is also a victim in this case.
Unless some new criminality is revealed, he has already paid for his negligence. Let’s be honest here, you’re not looking for justice, you’re looking for something that doesn’t exist in human beings, at any level, perfection!
In the military, we have no choice but to embrace the absolutes being highlighted here, the idea being predicated upon the belief that regimented repetition will instill an almost machine like predictability, and largely speaking, that works well in that environment.
Unfortunately this concept does not translate well to free society, further, the percentage of citizens with military training, and experience is very small. People, such as this father, are occupied with other pursuits, and they are not dedicated to the trigger, or weapon discilpine that more advanced, practiced, and experienced professional men & women have inculcated through rigorous training.
Its literally impossible to take issue with you for concluding as you have, because its true, he was an idiot, and his son has paid with his life for his lapse in judgement. Nonetheless, “shit does happen,” this being “greater society” at large, not the hard tack regimentation associated with the military, he should be dealt with as compassionately as the rest of his life may suggest…
So a better question may be what if it had been you? Mr Murphy hitches a ride with everyone, awaiting his opportunity…
Surely you know that I’m not in the least implying that the father is the primary victim as opposed to the son. The father is now a permanently ruined secondary victim by default, but certainly not the person who suffered and lost the most as a result of his extreme recklessness. And the wife isn’t likely to be far behind either of them.
Imprisonment doesn;t deter murders, robbery, drug use, or any other deviant act. The fear of punishment isn’t always a deterrent. Of course, this guy isn’t a criminal. He made a careless mistake, not an intentional one.
What if it was a careless welfare parent who didn’t take the time to look and drove over their own child and killed it? What about stupid thoughtless Moms who leave babies in the car and they die while they are shopping?
Do you extend to them the same “only an accident” courtesy? Or are the actions “criminally negligent”?
I wouldn’t compare this situation with the situation of a “welfare parent” (as if welfare parents are the only ones that leave children in cars). Of course, whether or not someone is imprisoned for negligently killing a child should be up to individual situations, and past history of parenting.
tell me how is it different in your eyes ?
does shooting your own kid make it less negligent then ?
only cause it was his own child
what if you were parked next to the guy with your kid going in and the gun went off his kid was not there so the round went into your kid IMHO that could have just as easily happened
then what if you were with him and he shot you dead ? what should your spouse do pat him on the back say its OK you suffered enough
again yes its his own kid but that does not take away negligence
because it could have been anyone !
if a guy drives drunk kills his family he suffered enough even though he made stupid decisions and did no harm to others around him ?
if a guy kills his kid cause of negligence speeding misses a turn should they say OK you suffered enough ?
Do any of you believe that he should ever be allowed to own another gun? I don’t, and I know of only one way of making sure that it never happens. I’m all ears for additional suggestions.
Also, I know that it is popular belief around here that anyone and everyone should be able to own and/or carry a gun. Well, here is the downside of that belief - morons who are unable or refuse to follow the most basic principles will get other people killed. The best way to check that downside is to deter morons from owning guns with stiff penalties for negligent deaths. That means that we fully enforce existing laws for manslaughter and negligent homicide. Expect to go to prison if you negligently kill anyone with a gun, or leave a gun unsecure for a child to harm themselves. Otherwise, we create a special class of citizen who is immune from prosecution when they happen to kill a family member with a gun.
I just have to ask:
(1) Why did he have his handgun in his hands?
(2) Why did he have it pointed at his son?
(3) Why was his trigger finger in the trigger guard?
As far as punishment, I think he has been punished in the worst possible way.
I agree. In all seriousness, how can you live with yourself after such a tragedy.
Do any of you believe that he should ever be allowed to own another gun?
I know a well respected psychologist who hit and killed a 12-year old boy in his Toyota Prius, stone cold sober! Should he be sent to prison, and refused an automobile for the duration of his life?
Barring some criminality being revealed, he should have the same rights as any other free citizen…
It wouldn’t “be me” because I don’t play around with firearms and especially not in the presence of my family. Everyone in my house is trained and knows not to play around with weapons either.
That is called an accident and unless there was some level of negligence involved then I would say know.
Somehow equating some jack ass with a loaded gun violating all established safety rules and then shooting his son is not even in the same chapter.
The father wasn’t playing around with it, he handled it improperly on two critical levels. Not trying to be a dick but there is a difference.
Edit: Posting from a mobile phone can make you look like an idiot grammar wise. Think I’ve learned my lesson now.
This is the kind of thread where I really miss AC…he always seemed to be able to inject knowledge and wisdom with the proper balance of compassion & toughness.
I simply cannot fathom a worse self imposed lifetime of pain??
Prayers for that whole family…they will need them!!
Both were accidents, both involved negligence! There is absolutely no difference between the auto and the firearm, US criminal courts have affirmed that many times, both are dangerous mechanisms, both are routinely mishandled contrary to all accepted safety protocul, resulting in many many dead and maimed.
I’m not defending this guy as a hapless victim, he clearly mishandled his firearm, however I am saying that we should be careful to avoid absolutes, humans are not machines, they make mistakes, sometimes the very best of us make them.
It wouldn’t “be me” because I don’t play around with firearms and especially not in the presence of my family. Everyone in my house is trained and knows not to play around with weapons either.
I fully believe you. There is nothing I can think of that is worse then the completely avoidable “accidental fatality!” Nonetheless, the state has no business criminalizing accidents unless they are “criminal.” This guy may be stupid, if he is redundantly so then the state is obliged to step in, but based upon what little evidence we have here, he’s not a criminal.
I find it very interesting that this thread is the second time in one week where members have responded to my criticism of stupidity with the notion that average citizens cannot expected to be trained to the level of Larry Vickers. After all, it takes a SME to comprehend basic safety.
Both instances involved people doing something really stupid with a gun. In the first case, the person was able to affect a citizen’s arrest with bad tactics and plenty of risk to self and family. However, it must be a win because the good guy used a gun to catch the bad guy.
Then, there is this case where a child was killed. Two very different outcomes, but the response on this board is the same. Thus, it appears that some will overlook stupidity to cheer a favorable outcome, and forgive it when it results in a tragedy. But, only if a gun is involved. I wonder why that is?
. . . Bias
If this is what you really believe then maybe you need a good night’s sleep. Obviously well intentioned but you’re sounding a bit robotic and/or negative lately to be honest.
not the same thing !!!
shooting someone is pure negligence !!!
to vague a description you gave IMHO to make a judgement
if the kid ran out from between a parked car ? that is flat out pretty impossible to avoid and is a accident !
or was the guy busy texting or not paying attention or on cell phone adjusting his music then yes sent to prison for sure !!!
you do not need to be a top notch spec ops guy !
basic safety is basic safety !
anyone should know you never point a gun at someone !
you never put your finger on the trigger and point it !
you always assume its loaded on top of it !
if you were bringing it in for sure you should have checked it and eve then assume its loaded never point it never put your finger on the trigger etc…
this guy sadly was wrong in so many ways !!!
again you dont need to be LV to know this stuff !!!
this is like saying you need to be a top notch world class race care driver to avoid a accident !
no just dont play with your cell phone ! pay attention ! etc…