So because its not mil spec, its trash? Theres a ton of rifles out there that are to “spec” and have failures, regardless of brands. Trouble can rear its ugly head all the time. One thing to think about is are the parts properly spec’d to each other, so that the tolerances are correct for the chamber and headspace and rifling and, and, and, and…
The point I am trying to make, which others seem to be vehemently opposing, is that just because other people on the internet have had problems, or say they have had problems, does not mean this one will. Ive personally had tons of problems with a Mossberg pump 500 and ill never own one again. Try telling someone else you think they are trash and see where that gets you. Ive had a Walther p22 that ive owned for 12 years. Its literally eaten thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammo with no hiccup and very minimal cleaning… its also been shot suppressed over the last few years. If i listened to every person who runs that gun down here in internet land, i would think id be better off just running it over with my truck and being glad im rid of that terrible abomination. but i wont.
Look, i dont know what kind of life threatening trouble the OP is expecting on a day to day basis where he needs to shoot people with his AR, but it sounds like he is newer to ARs and it also sounds like his Bushmaster has been no trouble thus far. True, there is no telling how it will do in the future, but that is with any mechanical item you posses. Machines fail all the time. Even quality machines fail. why do people that shoot colts and DDs and Noveske’s carry around a spare FCG or spare complete bolt? Reading about gun related troubles/problems/issues on the internet can kinda give some people gun hypochondria.
lastly, OP, go shoot your BM, run it hard, learn about it (and ARs in general) and love the one you’re with. You gotta love the one you’re with…
You’re right. Anecdotal stories on the Internet counts for nothing. So you turn to the specs. Some guns are built to a standard. Some aren’t. Is the commonly thrown out “mil-spec” standard the be-all/end-all measuring stick? No. But when some companies have shown over time that they can’t even meet that standard, let alone anything beyond, then you got what we have before us here today. It may work, it may not. The troubles comes when we try and get scientific on it and we can’t measure it against anything because, not being built to a standard, it has no standard to uphold.
I think you may have exhibited some fallacial thinking. First, let’s start with your Mossberg example. If you had been aware that the Mossberg is not the best quality would you have bought it anyway? You must not have known about it’s quality issues, unless you just decided to overlook them.
What if you had done your research and found out that some Mossbergs are POS, would you have bought it anyway just because someone told you anecdotally that they had no problem with their Mossberg? Did you think it would hold up as well as any other shotgun just because it shoots the same round and looks similar?
That is the situation here, the OP decided to do his research and learned about some of the quality differences between manufacturers. He then realized that the rifle he bought for SD presumably HD was not up to the quality he felt he wanted to bet his life and perhaps the life of his family on. So what did he do? He bought another rifle. It was a smart move, and now he also has a backup as well in the unlikely case his Colt fails. It is his choice you shouldn’t get butt hurt if he doesn’t think the BM is up to the quality he wanted.
You are telling him he should listen to you and disregard his own research and the advice of others with a lot of experience and no skin-in-the-game except wanting to help folks pick the best rifle for their needs.
When you say, “… there is no telling how it (the BM) will do in the future, but that is with any mechanical item you posses. Machines fail all the time. Even quality machines fail. why do people that shoot colts and DDs and Noveske’s carry around a spare FCG or spare complete bolt?”, you are expressing an ignorance about the differences in materials, and testing. You seem to be expressing the not uncommon thinking about ARs. That, ‘they are all pretty much the same you’re just paying for the label.’ Unfortunately, that is wrong. The Tier one manufacturers usually order parts that have, better materials, tighter tolerances, and more quality assurance applied. They use specifications that are well known to offer longer mean time between failure. Then they are checked before assembly. During assembly they are more carefully assembled and tested. Finally, they usually have much better customer service, repair and replacement policies. The fallacy is that all identical looking mechanical device will perform the same, regardless of materials, testing, or assembly. Is that what you are saying? Or are you saying that the BM is ‘good enough’? Maybe it is good enough for you, just like the Mossburg.
Yeah, you can buy a rifle and pay too much for it, but if you want maximum reliability, you might have to pay more for it.
Why, you ask does a guy who runs a Colt, DD, or BCM carry a spare bolt? To give themselves a chance in case the bolt fails? I would say that if a guy carries a spare bolt for his BM he might very well need it sooner than the guy who owns the Colt.
I believe that anyone buying a SD HD rifle should buy the best rifle they can afford and that leaves them with enough money to buy a large quantity of ammunition and practice, a lot. If the OP cannot afford ammo I suggest he sell the BM and buy a few thousand rounds of ammo and magazines.
Yeah, it is coming, and we can all bank on that. I should buy a couple of “cheap” ones and make a couple bucks on what will be that fiasco. I suppose that would make me a scalper, but this is America, and Capitalism is what it is.
DD guns are generally not overgassed with exception of their MK18 for commercial sales. Bushmaster makes several shortcuts. Gas ports, the stakings, batch testing of bolts, etc…
Tell that to the agency I just spoke to today in NY. They had several malfunctions occur with one of the typical trash vendors and this weapon has worked in the past. One of the malfunctions (slam fire) could have caused injury/death to someone or damage to property in the field.
I was the guy, like OP, who bought an AR15 Carbine for HD/SD/SHTF.
It was a Stag Arms. Heck, it even claimed “mil spec”.
But, yet, no M4 feed ramps, a 4140 barrel, improperly staked BCG, no staked castle nut (but as I’ve recently seen, no worries, it won’t start a fire!). I don’t even know what grade steel was used in the Bolt Carrier or if it was even MPI tested.
I feel like this topic is beat to death. In fact, I know it is. I’ve probably given this type of reply a number of times as fingers on one hand.
At M4C I learned through LOTS of reading what the difference is in brands & QC of different companies.
To deny that there is a difference in all of these things, materials, qc, is either trolling or ignorance.
And once one is aware of these facts, to buy an $800 BM over an $850 Colt is just stupid. Not directed at the OP, his 1st post describes his road to enlightenment. Which is one reaction.
The other is to get butt hurt and place mental defensive mechanisms to make oneself feel better about the beating they (I) took.
This debate kinda reminds me about a similar debate in a Dodge RAM forum I’m a member of.
These guys running around with the 4.7L V8 try to justify it against the HEMI.
Just like a BM against the Colt, etc.
I’m glad I got the HEMI. I’m glad I got the BCM’s & Colt.
Still, I’d shoot that BM till the wheels … er, BCG fell off of it.
No, because it wasn’t built properly or checked properly. It was built using short cuts and in some cases inferior materials.
I speak from experience. My personal experience is bushmasters, dpms, delton, etc are JUNK. Ever have a right out of spec chamber? Half assed staking, or none at all? I’ve personally witnessed all of the above. All leading to damage or malfunctions.
It’s called earth. There’s dumb asses out there that want to harm you, want your shit, or are just plain crazy. There’s plenty that use AR’s on here to defens themselves and those they love.
Yes, I understand murphys law and it’s best to prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
That noted, a properly built and quality “machine” will last longer and go longer without failure.
I had a Stag Upper and it ran fine. I got rid of it and upgraded to a Noveske 14.5". With that said the barrel was 4140 chrome-lined, no M4 feed ramps, the BCG was horribly staked, and they batch test their bolts. My lower had it’s castle nut properly staked. They do use the proper 8620 in their bolt carriers and Noveske did use to use them for their BCGs. You can order MPI/HPT bolts from them. I’ve had zero problems from my CMT bolt after a couple thousand rounds. Sometimes you get a lemon and sometimes you don’t, but it is better off going with a known quality manufacturer right off the bat. YMMV
In my case a small sample size with two police agencies, we had Armalites, DPMS and DSA of which several had to have repairs right out of the box. A mix of agency and personally owned carbines. As a individual owner the penalty for saving a few bucks is the increased chance that you might be the unlucky one that has to fool with this, assuming that it doesn’t fail at a moment of need. Or you might have zero issues. Luck of the draw. This is not to say a made to spec brand can’t have issues, but in my experience it’s less, like a lot less likely. Considering that our equipment and training are one of the few things that most of us have control over, it seems foolhardy not to to seek out the best. If it’s for recreational use only then not so much I suppose. If I’m a institutional buyer of hundreds or thousands of carbines that order goes to a Tier One manufacturer without question…(in my head in the clouds
perfect world of non low bid no political meddling purchasing).
I’ve had malfunctions occur on an issued Colt M4, which worked well before that. What does that mean? Nothing, because I got it working again. All rifles can have problems, I know that through my own shooting experience.
This thread has some generally good advice about what is and isn’t functional, that is being completely blown-off in favor of people bragging about high standards like it’s street cred.
This thread also has some generally good advise about what to look for in an AR, which doesn’t really apply because he has already bought his rifle.
I think the only worthwhile thing to be said is, enjoy both your rifles.
just picked 600 rds of xm193 today. gonna run my bushy through all that tommorrow. we’ll see how it goes. btw, I didn’t intend to start a brand war in this thread. I purchased my bushmaster for sd/hd. then, after gaining knowledge on quality built rifles, I didn’t feel comfortable with all the cost cutting measures I noticed on my bushy in it’s out of the box configuration. I do plan on upgrading it fully, but I want to get a round count untill something breaks. Definitely gonna run it hard and fast till then.
I am talking about malfunctions that are directly related to shortcuts and improperly built guns, not a simple malfunction. This is something you always tend to overlook when defending the trash vendors.
I bought this Stag before you could order the “plus” models or whatever Stag calls them.
This was about 7 yrs ago.
I only put a few hundred rounds through it. I liked it. It ran fine. No malfunctions. It shot smooth even. Tight fits on the upper/lower. Finish was nice.
But again, when you’re dealing with “specs” it doesn’t make sense to compromise unless you MUST have an AR RIGHT now.
Fortunately I was able to get out of it what I had in it so I didn’t take a loss.
@bloodlord77
Keep us posted on how the BM does. Enjoy the shooting. Keep a round count.
