Bob Lee Swagger (Hunter Novels), Kennedy Assassination, and more!

General General Discussion
1

Lets talk Bob Lee Swagger novels by Stephen Hunter.

If you don’t know the Bob Lee series, than you have missed out on probably the best book series of all time for those who like gun centric fiction novels.

Bob Lee is a character clearly inspired by Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock (with old school gunmen like Bill Jordan, etc in the mix) , so he’s a good old boy who was the top 'Nam era sniper who says little and shoots straight and true under pressure. If you have read the series, you know there’s just nothing as good as a Bob Lee adventure. He also spun the character off to Lee’s father (Earl, based on an MOH winning WWII vet who becomes a cop) and those too are fantastic books. I may even enjoy (truth be known) even a little more than Bob Lee novels.

The first in the series was Point of Impact, which was made into a worthless movie with no real connection to that book. A damn shame, because had it been well directed and cast, would have made a hell of a movie. If you have not read the series, start at Point of Impact.

The series is now lengthy with both Bob Lee novels and his fathers novels.

As with any lengthy series, at some point, the author (Hunter) starts to run out of ideas. All the books in the series are classics to me, but the last two before this latest, were not up to usual snuff for Hunter. I had really thought it was the end for the series when Hunter went into NASCAR and Samurai themed books, and one book even had some obvious brand placement with Lee choosing Kimber and mass market AR brand rifle, but I digress. To his credit, he pokes some fun at himself for those two novels in this latest novel.

But, I am here to tell you, Bob Lee/Hunter is back! His latest novelThe Third Bullet is Hunters truly in-depth look at the Kennedy Assassination. It’s essentially his theory on the event wrapped into a Bob Lee novel, and it’s very well done. It’s a very different Bob Lee adventure, more cerebral and fact driven than shooter novel because (1) there’s a lot of details to cover and (2) Lee is late 60s now and Hunter does not pretend he can run around running and gunning as he once did. Much of the book is also written from the antagonists POV, and it’s really well done. As one reviewer said:

“The Swagger novel we’ve all been waiting for, and the Swagger novel Stephen Hunter was born to write . . . a magnificent thriller—and it might even be true.” (Lee Child #1 New York Times bestselling author of A Wanted Man and The Affair)”

Hunter has done a sh&% load of research for this book, and his theory as to that event is quite possibly exactly what happened. OK, not exactly, but as he lays out the fact patterns, you are left convinced something very similar took place. I have yet to read a theory on the event (and obviously i have not read them all!) that puts the pieces together as he does here.

So, if you are a fan of Bob Lee novels, but found the last few wanting as I did, you will enjoy this book and possibly come away with a whole new perspective of the Kennedy event. It’s not a typical Lee adventure be warned, but a damn good read and unlike others who have written on this topic, he spends a great deal of time focused on the fire arm used in the event and various places the WC, FBI, experts of the day, etc, totally missed the boat. There’s an entire section after the novel called “The shim’s tale” which all but ends LHO as the shooter who made the fatal head shot to Kennedy.

2

I just finished this book. Probably the best Swagger/Hunter book so far. Very good read

3

Have you read the entire series to date? I’d also highly recommend the novels on his father Earl, with Pale Horse Coming perhaps the best of them all to me.

4

I’m not a book reader, but I’ve seen the Point of Impact movie (aka “Shooter”). I didn’t know there was a whole series about this Bob Lee Swagger character. Or course I don’t read many books, either. Interesting.

5

Indeed. The movie was a POS and had essentially zero connection the book other than in name, and they changed that too! Why they even bothered to say it as based on Point Of Impact (other than to perhaps get Lee/Hunter fans to go see it) I have no idea.

6

I have read all of them. I like historical fiction. I learned a bit about the Kennedy assassination from The Third Bullet.

7

His distillation of the facts, time lines, players, etc really brings clarity to that event I have never gotten from anything else I have read.

8

I actually thought it was a good movie. Could have been better but still decent. POI was the only book I had read up to that time. It would have been really hard to do a faithful version of the book and reach a major audience. Their attempt to update the timeline was clumsy at times, but I think you are being too hard on the movie.

It was better than 80% of the movies coming out of Hollywood with similar themes (former special forces vet must make it on his own against corrupt government, rescue his kidnapped family, etc.) and it was one of those rare “pro gun” films to exist at all. In fact I’d like to hear anyone nominate another film that is more freedom and rights oriented than “Shooter” that has come out since 2000.

That said, I do wish they had stayed with the book version of Nick Memphis, it would have dramatically improved the film without causing any storyline problems.

9

I especially liked the characterization of Oswald as a sniveling, wife beating, cop killing POS. Hunters assertion that Oswald was too much of a bumbling idiot to successfully assassinate Kennedy is, quite possibly, an accurate portrayal. The concept that the killing was a result of luck, coincidence is interesting. I thought that the info about the cheapness of the Carcano’s mount/optic was informative. If the FBI investigators couldnt estsblish a zero with Oswald’s rifle without fixing the mount, I am left wondering how he made the shots.

I know that the technical aspects of the shooting are possible with a scoped 6.5 Carcano. I didnt know Oswald’s was missing 2 screws and was so goofed up.

10

Lets see, from the hip I’d have to say the re-make of Red Dawn.

11

Kind of a stretch, they were being invaded. Shooter was about a regular guy taking on the government, not NORKs.

12

Ah, I see what you are getting at. Hmm, I see what I can come up with.

13

I don’t even mind Mark Wahlberg as an actor and think he’s actually better than most give him credit for, but casting him as Bob Lee Swagger was not updating the timeline, but a travesty. It was all pretty much downhill from there. I didn’t mean the movie itself was POS, I meant compared to the book and compared to what it could have/should have been, it was a POS. :slight_smile:

As a stand alone movie, it was harmless enough and average enough.

14

It almost seems as if that’s the only real possibility. They had so little time to actually set that up. That part was for me the final straw that what ever happened, LOH couldn’t have acted alone, or the probability so low as to be damn near impossible. It would be coincidence almost outside the realm of possible. I’m not given to tin foil stuff of that nature, but either God himself had it in for Kennedy and set up that coincidence of his location to work to Kennedy’s route with days of notice, or it was as Hunter concludes or very similar.

15

Wahlberg would not have been my first pick. I think Tommy Lee Jones would have done a good job.

16

I have read all of the Bob Lee and some of the Earl novels. Like Will, I just about gave up on Bob Lee in the Samurai and NASCAR books. They were horrible. But I am glad I held on as better books followed. The best of Hunter’s books, IMO, are:

Point Of Impact 1993 - Bob Lee Swagger #1
Time To Hunt 1998 - Bob Lee Swagger #3
I, Sniper 2009 - Bob Lee Swagger #6
Dead Zero 2010 - Bob Lee Swagger #7
The Third Bullet 2013 - Bob Lee Swagger #8

I also liked Soft Target 2011 - Ray Cruz #1

I am looking forward to Sniper’s Honor 2014 - Bob Lee Swagger #9, to be released on May 20.

17

Another one who loves the Stephen Hunter books, I’ve read all of them in the series with Hot Springs (Earl #1) being my favorite. The Third Bullet was excellent, it actual got me interested in reading into the JFK assassination more…as mentioned, the fact that they could not zero the scope was very interesting. I was also unaware of Oswald visiting a Russian embassy and previously trying to half-assed assassinate a US Army general. Good mix of history, guns, and fiction.

18

V For Vendetta.

19

Definitely about individual freedoms in a 1984 sense. Not quite a “pro gun” film.

20

You didn’t say that. :stuck_out_tongue:

But the whole “People shouldn’t be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.” thing could be construed as pro civilian armament of some sort.