Blackhawk Serpa CQC holster

Tactical Gear Tactical Gear
1

[Rant]Folks, please stop buying this holster! I see this holster constantly in basic pistol classes and it is really a bad idea.

So what’s the problem with them you ask? There are two main ones.

First, the retention system in this holster CAN create bad muscle memory in the shooter and get you shot! When you attempt to disengage the retention system, your trigger finger should be straight along the tab (that releases the gun). When the gun fails to come out of the holster, the shooter becomes more aggressive and uses the tip of the trigger finger and presses in on the release tab. The finger then stays in this position and ends up in the trigger guard as the gun comes out of the holster. This will eventually cause an ND.

Second, the retention system has large openings around it. This can be filled with debris (rocks, dirt, etc) and lock the gun into the holster. This is of course a bad thing when you are wanting/needing to shoot someone.

When owners of the Serpa CQC are confronted with the above two issues (especially number one), the common answer is; “My finger is always straight when I operate the tab.” BULL CHIT. While it MAY be that way on the square range when the sun is shining and you are not under the slightest amount of stress it all changes when you are in a hurry and the gun is NOT coming out of the holster.

True story. An LE firearms instructor here in Ohio recently shot himself in the leg with a Serpa holster. This guy was very squared away and a good shooter. He was doing some speed drills and was attempting to draw quickly. When the gun failed to come out, he pushed down harder with his trigger finger. This same finger then ended up in the trigger guard and the gun went bang.[/Rant]

Just Say NO!

C4

2

Don’t use a serp unless you have the herp! There. Now nobody will use them, grant! :cool:

3

LOL, nice.

I understand why people buy these things (they are available and are cheap).

McDonalds is everywhere and cheap, that doesn’t mean that it is a good place to eat. :wink:

C4

4

This holster is made to be appealing to the same idiots who buy a Springfield XD for its “extra safety features”. :suicide:

In all honesty, I stay away from everything BlackHawk! makes because it’s shit gear mostly made in Viet-F$cking-Nam…

5

I, along with many others I worked with used SERPA holsters…nary a problem. Gave me 3 years service in Iraq with no NDs. Thinking operator error over design.

6

As a secondary weapon mounted on a plate carrier, I can actually understand using it (as there are not a lot of options).

The operator is at fault for releasing the tab with the tip of their finger and then riding it into the trigger guard. The design lends itself to this though and makes it MUCH easier for shooters to have an ND (as the example I showed did).

C4

7

I see dudes who are the “real deal” using them overseas all the time. 99% of the time it’s because it was issued (via COTS purchase).

Shit, our box of “issue gear” is full of Uncle Mikes holsters and mag pouches mixed in with Blade Tech gear; some dudes don’t know the difference.

There is always a supply guy somewhere reading a gun rag who gets the idea that this would be a great thing to buy a case of…

No matter who uses a SERPA… it’s still a complete piece of shit, and there are dozens of better choices out there.

8

I believe most guys grind off the inside tab to prevent the almost certain ND.

9

I have heard this.

C4

10

Gotta agree, POS.

My initial experience with this Serpa was shortly after its first release when I did a T&E on this holster for my employer quite a few years back. I noted potential issues that eventually showed up amongst general users. While I never had the locking device actually lock up on me during real use, I was able to easily create the issue with debris in the locking device causing the weapon not to come out of the holster. While I never experienced it under real training conditions I can easily see how it could happen. I was one of the early Serpa haters and boy did I take a lot of flak for that back in the day when they were the latest and greatest piece of sliced bread.

I re-visited this holster about 1 year ago and did another T&E on it and found myself doing a lot of pure speed drills, which I never really did during my first evaluation. During this second eval I noted that under induced stress of say a timer combined with speed in mind, I had far too many failures to release the weapon. This is the point in which I began to see the phenomenon of curling the trigger finger to do a positive or hard “press” of the serpa’s release button. Invariably under high speeds this caused me to drag my finger a bit along the holster as the weapon was being drawn out. Now I never went as far as shooting myself in the leg, but I actually came to the realization that this is a serious potential for bad things, even in a very experienced shooter. Actually I saw this to be a potential with more experienced shooters as they really start pressing the pace. I will admit that most times I had no issues with the draw, but there were enough occasions where I noticed issues that it became a legit concern for me. Again, I noticed more issues with this problem, the more proficient I became with the holster and the more I pushed the pace. Perhaps something about a more gross movement with the straight index finger not allowing me a good release under speed.

I run this holster in a video or two of mine. Again for the majority of the time draws worked well, but if you notice in the below video of the 10-8 drill I actually have a couple issues on the draw, where I need to reposition my grip slightly or where I double clutch the weapon because I didn’t hit the release well. This can be especially seen in the last stage of fire stage 12. Also half of the stages or so start out of the holster, so my failure rate is not acceptable. I also ran this holster enough where I became just as efficient as others I know that run it 100% of the time.

10-8 drill with the Serpa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05P9ARD4cj4

Again IMO, the holster is not acceptable.

11

Saw one get jammed up here locally while doing some drills that required lying on the ground. A few small pebbles get into the retention area and locked it up to where the guy couldn’t draw the gun.

Sad really, but people buy the becasue they are cheap and easy to find. Thing is a basic Safariland ALS paddle or belt holster can be had for the same price.

12

Another problem that I have personally seen cause issues on multiple SERPA holsters being carried by cops is the flimsy mounting system. I have seen SERPAs ripped directly off of the belts of guys carrying them during training. The way the belt slide attachment is affixed to the holster is super weak. I have also seen another well respected instructor who experienced the same failure during class. In his instance, the pistol became locked in the holster due to debris locking up the retention button. When the shooter and others trying to assist the shooter began to pull on the grip of the pistol, the holster ripped right off of the belt slide attachment.

The BIGGEST problem I see with SERPA holsters is that they are cheap…and so are most cops. Therefore, they have ended up being one of, if not the most prevalent holster design you see cops carry on a daily basis.

13

The Serpa for the X26 Taser is also crap. You can grab the side of the holster and twist the X26 from the holster without ever pushing the release button. My agency issued me one. Once I saw this flaw, I popped for a more secure Safariland ALS version.

My agency also issues the Serpa duty holster…crap. They had to send out a safety recall notice, because the gun could be ripped out by an attacker.

My two cents…you cant beat Safariland for on duty carry.

Edited content

Holsters require maintenance. I blast the SLS and ALS mechanisms of my Safariland Holsters with B/C Gun Scrubber/compressed air and then an aerosol can dry lube to clean out and lube the mechanism every so often. I work in the brush and have seen the mechanisms become sluggish/almost frozen without maintenance.

14

I HAD to buy one of these shitty things when I first got my M&P 45 because there were no other quick options available at the time. I knew is was junk, but had to have something to be able to move around on the range with a hot weapon.

I eventually got my phantom, and tossed that thing aside.

15

Same gun, same reason: at the time, a holster for a Glock 21 would fit, was all that was immediately available, and I wan’t leaving the store without a holster.

…and my skin was crawling every time I wore the thing, until my Safariland and my Minotaur came in.

If one likes to say that the SERPA is a great holster, it’s because they’ve never had the pleasure of having a piece of gravel, mud, snow or the like ( in my case, it was a sliver of gravel) get stuck behind the release lever, keeping it from being depressed at a time one desperately needs to draw the weapon. Knowing that you HAVE a pistol on your hip, pulling on it with enough strength to uproot small trees, and having it be as accessible to you as insert name of one’s most-desired actress/porn star/female athlete here’s panty drawer – meaning NOT AT ALL – is a distinctly BAD feeling.

If I hadn’t had a fire-team of other Marines with me at that moment in 2006, I’d be dead…because of a damned holster.

It’s not even the frequency of the SERPA failures across the market; I get how some unicorn-vagina and chocolate-rainbow visionary type can ignore how often folks report glitches. The world is full of either Pollyannas or people that blithely manage to walk between raindrops, and I can handle that. What I don’t get is how folks can ignore the implications of the TYPE of malfunctions these things are no-shit KNOWN (note that I didn’t say believed; belief is NOT a metric…) to exhibit, and continue to use them.

Saying some analogue of how SERPA “hasn’t failed yet, in X years of use…” is a completely factual statement that I have no doubts over, but the center of gravity of the statement is the word “yet.” How many lives may hang on the balance of little words like “yet” or “if?”

How many top-rate instructors/schools patently state that they will not allow SERPA holsters on their ranges? This isn’t a game of Smear the Queer, those thing just suck donkey dong, period. The folks that own them are at least not doing any of the sucking, but are definitely cupping the balls while the holster does the sucking for them, which is still nasty.

Get a different holster, and leave that poor donkey the hell alone.

16

I have never given anything from Blackhawk a serious look. IMHO they are on par with the airsoft grade shit. After are they are made in the same country, imagine that.

17

This is the only holster with active retention that I have. The rest are RCS, etc.

18

I used one during the beggining of my “serious” shooting , when I first started to get into training, competeing, and finding out what I didnt know.

I wrote this once I had a clue, it was mostly aimed at another forum I frequent where Open Carry is a big deal and the Serpa is like the fuckin OC uniform for douche bags who thinks it will retain there gun and they there fore “dont need no stinking training”

some background first.
I have used a SERPA holster for both CC and OC for the past year 2 years. I have used it to carry a XD-9 earliest on, and various 1911 models in the last year and a half that I have been carrying a 1911.

I have taken several training courses using it from Various trainers.

I have used it to do more than one retention and disarms session, and with informal FOF.

My honest assesment of the system is that while it provides a small amount of retention the downsides outweigh its benefits.

Let me quantify “small amount of retention”.
There are two types of dangers to being disarmed. The first is a “gun grab”. A gun grab can best be explained as a rough attempt to take your gun by someone with neither knowledge or skill, or who is perhaps too inebriated to be either.
The second type is a real disarm. This would be attempt to remove your gun by someone who knows what they are doing (at least to some degree) and is able to physically employ a method to do so.

I have seen SERPA holster bodys ripped right off the frame, (using belt loop attachment) the screws that hold it in place pop through the plastic using medium strength in class. Against a gun grab, the holster body is not strong enough to withstand a good pull and rip from a normal sized man. When using the paddle the holster will move around the belt, bunch up clothes and make contolling its position difficult.

I have also seen training guns (same dimensions as the real thing but solid hard plastic) pulled right up out of the holster. With a good pull from a normal sized man the tab that holds the gun in on the trigger guard will bend and give way. In one class I had the gun ripped right from me (while I was resisting) and the role play BG commented “wait, isnt that a Serpa holster???” with confusion.

Against a real disarm the button is easy to identify and push. The draw on the SERPA is easy, this is the downside to that.

I have yet to see someone have the fabled ND by having the button pushing finger enter the trigger guard. My fingers are long enough that even if I try my finger hits the front of the guard, I would need to bend it to get it in there. Nonetheless one trainer told me he saw it happen once. I have only heard of it happen with GLOCK or other guns without a manual safety.

As I said I have used this holster in numerous classes, and done countless presentations from it. All without fail. I trained well to use it. During one class the instructor commented that by the end of class I would toss it out, he had seen it complicate a draw so often he was certain.

This class involved drawing after being pushed to the ground, while wrestling, and from other disadvantageous positions. I had no issues, although another classmate popped the button off his half way through as he kept fouling the draw, and I would disarm him every chance I got.

Recently I have experianced a few times where my cover garment wrapped around the holster and it caused me to have to double tug on the pistol, as it complicated my draw. This may not be a concern for anyone who OC’s only (ever wear a jacket or coat when its chilly???) but I have seen draws need more than one tug from experianced shooters if they get flustered or put into FOF.

My real concern and reason for this write up is the number of people I see open carry with this style of holster thinking they have “retention”, and taking a false sense of security from that. At most, without the holster physically failing, it will give you a precoius half second to imploy some sort of defense.

If you are not trained, and have not practiced, what to do… well then, you wont do anything.

Ive scince been in more classes, and follow up Retention and Disarm classes with students having these… and its only reinforced my opinion that this is bad kit for all but a limited application (not mine).

19

I must have been living with my head in the sand for the past year or so, because I never realized that these holsters had these types of issues. I’d always heard the tales and horror stories of people getting debris in the locking mechanism, but I always brushed it off as a few random cases that the internet blew out of proportion.

And I guess I just assumed that my agency wouldn’t allow it to be a standard issued holster if it had these issues…I never did any research on the matter myself.

I switched to SERPA Level 3 about a year ago and haven’t had any problems with it. My draw speed increased and I felt more comfortable with its retention-Ha! The Safariland holster’s bail would seem to find its way open (especially if I was reaching over into the passenger seat to grab something while I was wearing my vest).

But, I’ve never had anyone try to rip the SERPA off. Seems like thats the exact wrong time I’d want my holster to fail me. So, I just dug my Safariland out of a box in my closet. It’s going back on the duty belt tonight and I’ll be hitting the range with it tomorrow morning to practice my draw with it again.

Thanks for the heads up.

edit: as far as the AD/ND thing…thats 100% user error imo. If you are drawing it correctly, then you should never have an ND.

20

Dachs,

Im not a big fan of the 6280 series holsters with only the rotating hood. They do always find their way open, and when the hood is rotated down it is basically a gun bucket with zero retention. Get into a struggle on the street and bad things can happen.

I have since switched to the 6300 series ALS holsters which offers an active retention device that is very intuitive to release with your shooting thumb. They also offer it with the rotating hood as an option as well, but I prefer the open top 6325 without the hood.

I highly recommend that you take a look at the 6300 series ALS holsters from Safariland.