I own a Noveske SPR, 18" barrel with 1:7 twist rate, chambered in 5.56.
I am looking at the Black Hills remanufactured (blue box) .223 ammo, which is about $17 per box less than the new (white box, cosmetic seconds) 5.56 ammo. This is a difference of about 34 cents per round.
I use this rifle for target shooting…and of course, I want to get the tightest groups I can, but 66 cents/round versus $1.10/round has me wondering if I’m not just wasting money on the Mk 262 ammo. Same projectile, just a slightly lighter load…and I’m not shooting distance, just 100 yards at the local range and maybe a bit longer on a buddy’s property.
We’ve all read that 5.56 ammo will be slightly more accurate (than .223 ammo) in a rifle chambered for 5.56. But does anyone have actual experience with these two loads? If you have shot both loads from the same rifle, how much of a difference did you notice?
If all you are shooting is 100 yards I would shoot the cheaper stuff or find something else that satisfies your cost/benefit ratio around the same price based on what shoots best in your rifle.
If you’re ok with steel case check out the Hornady 75GR BTHP practice rounds.
If you want to shoot the tightest groups you can @ 100yds, then there is much better options than MK262, for much cheaper. Try the Hornady vmax 55gr/60gr.
Your wasting MK262 if your not shooting it past 600yds imho.
Black hills 77 Gr. SMK ammunition is my go-to for my SPR’s. I get better accuracy with the .223 over the 5.56 MK262 style at the expense of velocity. This is out of an 18’’ BCM SS410 with 5.56 SAM-R match chamber. Velocity is ~ 2620 FPS for the .223 BH 77 GR SMK loads.
As for factory new red box vs re-manufactured blue box, there are a few differences. Obviously, the blue box uses once fired brass. The blue box ammunition does not have sealed primers. The red does.
Molon has done extensive testing comparing blue vs red box BH ammunition. I will post a quote from one of Molon’s posts regarding the blue box ammunition:
“Black Hills does not perform a “trim to length” operation on the resized cases used in the blue box ammunition. As a result, many of the cases are longer than the SAAMI recommended maximum length of 1.760”. Several of the cases that I measured had a length of 1.775”. This could potentially cause problems in a barrel with a minimum length chamber, though no malfunctions of any kind were experienced during the testing of this ammunition. (Using a Sinclair chamber length gauge, I determined the chambers of my Colt barrels have a length of 1.780”.)”
I have not personally noticed an appreciable difference in accuracy with the blue vs red box BH ammunition. Although my chronograph data does indicate that red box ammunition has a lower standard velocity deviation than blue box, but not by much.
Personally, I keep a combat load of factory new red box loaded and ready to go. For training / range use, I use the cheaper blue box.
Eh. . . not really.
Practical performance wise, 5.56 ammo will be more functionally reliable in a rifle with a 5.56 chamber.
And, are you sure your Noveske is 5.56 and not a NM Mod 0 chamber?
Every Noveske SPR barrel I know of has that chamber.
It’s slightly tighter in certain areas than a true 5.56, but retains good function under heavy firing density.
Thank you very much. This is the kind of info I’m looking for.
Hearing that the .223 probably won’t degrade accuracy is nice.
Knowing they don’t trim the cases on the blue box, I’ll probably do a little more homework before I decide which one to go with…they offer a red box 5.56 as well…it’s not much cheaper than Mk262, though.
Thanks…that’s why I’m looking at the blue box Black Hills stuff…it’s relatively inexpensive and still allows me to keep the rifle zeroed for 77 grain stuff.
I tried some of that Hornady 75 grain stuff when I was in a pinch…shot pretty good, but I just can’t consciously run that in a rifle I have all that money tied up in.
I should have given more info about what I intend to do with the gun. I do go hunting on rare occasion, and now that I have this rifle I may try to start doing some distance shooting. I like the idea of keeping it zeroed with 77 grain, and getting familiar with how it shoots. I almost bought a 6.8 just on the off chance I decided to take it hunting, so I won’t feel too bad spending 65 cents or even a buck a round.
Anyways, I do agree Mk 262 is just too much for what I’m doing with it…hoping the .223 loads will work for my needs and save me 25-40% or so.
I guess if you want to split hairs, sure…my Noveske is just like every other Noveske with the NM Mod 0 chamber.
Point was, Noveske advertises their rifles as 5.56 (as opposed to .223), and I have read/heard there is a difference in accuracy when running .223 ammo in a 5.56 rifle…so that’s why I wanted to hear from people with actual experience using Black Hills ammo in both flavors.
To be technically correct and factual, Noveske’s NM Mod 0 chambering is specifically designed to chamber 5.56 ammunition (as opposed to .223 Remington).
If you recall, I was asking what effect on accuracy would be, if any, by shooting .223 ammunition instead of 5.56, in a rifle designed to shoot 5.56 ammunition. Saying “I have a rifle chambered in NM Mod 0” didn’t really seem to serve any purpose, other than confusing anyone who wasn’t familiar with what Noveske calls their particular spin on the 5.56 chambering.
I don’t know what you think you are arguing about, but if you look at the differences between a 5.56 Nato round and a .223 Rem round the differences are much less than the differences between the chambers, with the only real functional differences between the loaded rounds being the pressure that they are loaded to.
Further, there are far more variables between projectiles (that can be found in either 5.56 or .223 cartridges), with more drastic divergences, than there are between 5.56 and .223 cartridges.
I am really not interested in this “argument” as it is simply a misunderstanding about what the functional difference between 5.56 and .223 cartridges really is, as opposed to the differences in chamber dimensions.
I’m not arguing with you at all. I’m fully aware what the difference is between a 5.56 load and a .223 load…chamber pressure and subsequently, velocity.
I thought it went without saying that I was wondering what impact the lower chamber pressure (and subsequent decrease in velocity) of the .223 loads would make on accuracy in a rifle that was designed to fire 5.56.
I just don’t see what your post had to do with my request for people to post their first-hand experience shooting the two Black Hills loads that I mentioned. But in any case, I realize I’m new here, so I’m just gonna leave it at that
Any first-hand experience with the two loads I mentioned would be great. I was really hoping to see some group size data, etc.
If the key variable we are looking at is pressure and bullet velocity, from what I’ve read there is .223 then 5.56 and MK262 is even on the hot end of 5.56.
I don’t know if I have ever seen a comparo of 223 vs 556 level ammo with the same bullet in an actual 556 chamber. It seems everything I’ve seen is a usually a variant of the 556 chamber. The results I see out of my JP barrel with a Wylde chamber, and what I remember from postings, is that 77gr SMKs are more accurate, in 100 yard testing, in 223 loadings. I don’t know why.
I will largely agree with Trident about longer range where the 77gr shines if paper is the target, but even at 300 yards I see differences in reactive steel targets with heavy ammo giving more umppf than lighter loadings. I’m thinking specifically Larue targets 300-400 yards. I was activating them reliably, while lighter loads were having issues- and that was with BH 223 77gr ammo in my gun.
MK262- 556 77gr ammo is in the back of the gun room for a rainy day
BH 223 77gr (Blue or Red) are for when I really want to shoot over 300 yards and I want MOA accuracy.
PRVI 223 75gr is for long range where the inherent accuracy of the rifle/round is secondary to my ability to hold the target- IE run and gun matches with improvised shooting positions from 100-400 yards when 1.5 MOA is OK.
Inside 150 yards I just shoot M193
PRVI is cheap, but I’d like to look for a 68-69gr accurate loading in similar price range that might give better accuracy.
F2S wouldn’t have replied to your thread if he wasn’t interested in helping out…as you will note the first part of his first reply was directed at your question. He is not trying to demean you, and you kinda egged him on with your initial reply about splitting hairs as if he were trying to bust balls. He doesn’t bust balls, he is just a total straight shooter and calls it the way it is. I would indeed just leave it at that.
Here is some accuracy evals on MK262 mod1 through 5.56 1/7th barrels…
eta…I’d go with exactly what FromMyColdDeadHand’s listed above for your needs and budget, I’m not sure you can top the PRZI/PPU 75gr. current variety for ranges below 600yds
Ultimately each barrel shoots differently and plays far more of a factor in ammo selection than 5.56 vs. .223, and there isn’t any better way to find something out than test it yourself, evaluate the findings, and then pick accordingly.
Thanks for the information…that’s the kind of info I’m looking for.
As for finding an inexpensive 68-69 grain load, you might check out AmmunitionToGo.com - they they have pretty decent prices on Black Hills stuff. I think the 69 and 77 grain Blue Box is around $32.95 for 50 rds.
Thanks for posting those targets…that’s good stuff. Much appreciated. I realize trying a particular load through my rifle is going to be the real litmus test, but as expensive as good ammo is, I figured I’d save myself some money by asking first. Posts like yours should definitely save me a few bucks.
As for F2S busting my balls, you’re right…that was how I took it, and I probably should have given him the benefit of a doubt.
I worked in my dad’s gun shop for nearly a decade, so I’m probably a little oversensitive to that kind of thing…it’s like my ears have PTSD from all the bullshit they’ve had to digest.
Its my pleasure, and you’ll see that unlike other forums, the majority of mods on here not only moderate but generally actively participate in the discussions, and bring real world experience to the table. I probably thought the mods were busting my balls when I first joined up as well, but I shortly realized that nothing is ever personal when it comes to M4C mods.
I enjoy trying and shooting as many types of ammo as I can, and one thing Ive found out is that heavier is not always better. Even in 1/7th barrels. I have even shot quite a few different types of 40gr/45gr. stuff without them disintegrating upon leaving the barrel of a 1/7th:D
Good to know and I appreciate your candor. I’m typically more of a lurker unless I have a question (or a new rifle to show off!), but I’ll probably be more apt to post here than the other forums.
Really nice groups (as were the ones you posted earlier). 1/7 twist barrels seem to be versatile…I’ll probably never buy another one with a 1/9.
I ran some 75 grain Hornady and then finished off some 62 grain Lake City stuff that I had lying around (at the Lake City range coincidentally), and the lighter stuff did surprisingly well. It still has the factory trigger in it, so I wasn’t going to waste the money shooting good ammo…mainly just went to get the scope reasonably zeroed and start breaking the gun in while I was waiting for the Geiselle to show up.
My main reason for wanting to stick with heavier ammo is so that the gun will be zeroed and ready to hunt, on the off chance I can get away for a weekend. With my schedule, if I were to have to go out and zero it in with 75-77gr ammo before I go hunting, chances are I just won’t go at all.
BTW - after seeing your groups in the previous post, I’m really impressed with that PRVI 75 grain ammo…seems like it would be hard to beat for the money.
Just for fun, since you guys are helping me figure out what I want to shoot out of it, here’s the rifle (if you hadn’t already seen it in the AR forum).
Geissele trigger should be here before the weekend…then I plan to break out the good ammo.
