BG(s)+Armor+Home Invasion

Training Training and Tactics
1

Wife and I have been discussing/planning just in case. First, let’s put to rest that we fit the profile of those that generally get invaded. I’ve trained with and met enough people from M4C for it to be known we are not criminal elements. Bad shit does happen to the good guys also.

However, due to factors that I am not going into, we feel we are at a higher probability than most for something to potentially occur.

BG’s have made entry and have been put down with CM shots. I do not feel the BG’s would have Velocity Systems multi-hit capable plates on, but who knows. So, BG’s are down. If no call to 911 yet, one of us calls now; if we feel comfortable with one of us temporarily out of the fight. Possibly I engaged while wife took other action so she may have made call early in invasion. No way to know what will happen, obviously.

If BG(s) only temporarily “knocked out”, probably going to just cover them until LE arrives. Can’t turn back on them. Can’t walk over and finish them off; that’s execution. How do you deal with BG(s) that may or may not get back in the fight? What if they start to get back up?

My thought is for both of us to use a carbine with proper ammo. so that regardless of armor or not, the BG(s) take hits that incapacitate them. Keep carbines within arm’s reach at all times? That’s tough with an infant in the house. She has been disciplined to not even think about touching a weapon, but …

I’m really thinking about picking up 2 SCAR 17s’s , going SBR, and using these as primary weapons. CM shots on BG’s with armor would fix the issue. Proper ammo. of course. We all know shot placement is key, but I am thinking of wife/adrenaline/fluidity of situation, etc. makes .308 a good choice in dealing with the armor issue. Yes, I know 5.56 works wonders, but I am talking about being as sure as possible hits the wife gets puts BG’s down and out. My wife is a tough, mean bitch that has many female friends that have served in the IDF, she has the correct mindset, went through Katrina and Lenny. She is in shape(runs/lifts/grapples with me) and I have no doubt she could handle the .308. Not something she would want to hump all day, but isn’t an issue in this situation. She will run several TigerSwan classes to get familiar. Yeah, she’s serious about it.

I worry about the BG’s getting back up, issues with the law, etc. Deading them from the beginning seems like the best option.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Criticisms?

I am watching our infant while writing so if I forgot anything, give me a break.

Any help is greatly appreciated. I doubt I am the only one grappling with this recent turn of BG’s wearing armor.

2

I know this goes against the grain here, but this is getting ridiculous IMO.

Teams of armored bad guys are not invading random houses, they are going after drugs and shit. You don’t need to drop thousands of dollars for SBR’d SCARs and have elaborate force on force defense plans.

3

You don’t know the OP’s situation. In a super-high-dollar residential neighborhood in Florida, his concerns might not be misplaced.

It’s all in your comfort level with your preparations. Some people are content with no gun. Some are content with Grandad’s old bird gun, for which they don’t even know where the shells are. Some think a shotgun with birdshot is plenty.

I would say a 5.56 carbine with a light will handle 95% of any situation you’re likely to encounter in the home - the SCAR 17 will take care of the remaining 4.5% - and the last 0.5% (you’re being Helter-Skeltered at multiple entry points by trained, blooded people who have done this before, behind full Level IV armor and shields, equipped with explosive breaching capability) you’re in deeper shit than you’re going to be able to handle.

The last maxim of gunfighting is that sometimes, albeit rarely, you can do everything right and die anyway.

Roundabout way of saying - if that last 4.5% of insurance makes you feel better, don’t let someone scoffing on the Internet deter you from doing what you think is right.

If I knew I was going down the hall to get in a gunfight, Yes, I’d rather have my SCAR17 stoked with TAP or Barnes TSX than a 5.56. I’d do it with my 10" 5.56, for sure, but why not have more power.

4

I think a lot of the best decisions that could be made for your needs really are probably impossible for those who do not fully know your situation. Not talking about why you want to address this or anything and I am more than willing to let someones reasons being left personal but anything from your house layout, sleep and wake habits, where the intrusion occurs, etc can play a role in addressing your issue.

Keeping the fighting to a fatal funnel with the BGs having to go through it to get to your family makes the situation much more ideal for calling 911, solo standoff, etc as their offensive ability is drastically decreased so if you can plan and create defense around keeping the BGs as vulnerable as possible while minimizing your vulnerability then I say do so. Goes into ambush vs trying to clear your own house, usually its best to just call 911 and wait in ambush in a fairly safe location. So I would really look into how best to keep intruders vulnerable and minimize your vulnerability while defending so that it is safer when calling 911 and covering incapacitated individuals.

As for hardware I not sure about the 5.56 vs 7.62 although 7.62 will obviously have better raw penetration while sacrificing some control. In the end I think it takes a back seat to software such as being ready to take a CNS shot, take points of strategic advantage, cover or concealment, etc.

5

Agree. Fatal funnel is key.

So we’re clear; this isn’t tin foil hat shit. LE is involved and aware. High probability house is being cased. Other highly suspicious behavior. Came home around 10pm several days ago and saw 2 guys flee from side of house. This, along with other “clues” are why I am discussing this. I have a wife and infant I love with all my heart.

Any advantage I can get, I will. I look at it like Quiet does. It’s a matter of probabilities and a .308, I feel, increases the probability of incapacitating a BG. This would rectify the issue of worrying about a BG in armor getting up again to do harm.

6

How’s the exterior of your house? I mean all corners well lit at night, no overgrown bushes, etc. House alarm? Any dogs?
Stay vigilant. My wife is due in July and I would be on edge if I observed the same around my home.

7

Nothing is 100%, you’re just increasing your percentages going to a bigger gun. Now - as the other poster said above, arranging your house so they have to come to you, preferably down a hallway, will do more to equalize the situation than the additional advantage a 7.62 will give you. I don’t know your floor plan, but a thought would be to put a security door (the barred grate type) between your sleeping quarters and the rest of the house - yes, it could be breached, but you’re buying time for the cops to get there. If you set it halfway down a hallway, you’d make it a mighty pain in the ass for someone to set a charge or attempt a mechanical breach with you throwing rounds at them through the door.

Might be good to get external CCTV cameras so you can see what’s going on outside.

ETA: if you can afford a pair of SCAR17s, you can afford to glaze your bedroom windows with security film or replace them with Lexan. It’d be a little embarrassing to Alamo in the back half of your house only to have some asshole toss a gas or FB through your bedroom window.

8

It sounds like your more worried about possible criminal repercussions . If BG stays down after you hit him in the plate a couple of times, great! Cover him till LEO arrives. If he stays in the fight move to the melon. That’s a little different than walking over action hero style and turning out his lights with one to the head.

9

I concur, it does sound a bit tinfoil hat-ish but we don’t know the OPs situation.

As someone who owns a SCAR 17 with a light, I have a few concerns I’d like to raise.

The first is overpenetration. I live in a wooden house with other houses (some wooden) within 50 yards in quite a few directions. I have no doubt .308 could go through my wall and into another home. The last thing I want is a dead neighbor’s child because I went whacko jacko with the battle rifle against some meth addict looking for cash.

The second thing is muzzle blast. I have an AAC Blackout on mine and even with a 16" barrel the thing is LOUD. So loud it could be potentially disorienting. You SBR that and you’re looking at a flash bang going off in your face. Better grab a suppressor (but what do you use for the next 6 months while the paperwork goes through)

The 3rd is weight and length. A SCAR17 with a 13" barrel and a 30cal suppressor is going to weigh a ton and be as long as an M16A4.

My recommendation? Get a 10.3" AR15 in 5.56 with a suppressor and practice extensively with failure to stop drills going after both headshots and hip shots. You won’t have the overpenetration issues, you won’t have the length and weight issues, practice is cheap, for the price of TWO you are looking at 1 SBR’d SCAR 17 with a suppressor.

Hip shots are very effective at disabling a target

10

Hope you didn’t take anything personally, wasn’t my intent, I’m just seeing a lot of threads about guys getting ready for the evil SWAT team to roll in. Best of luck with this, I hope nothing comes of it.

11

I COULDN’T AGREE MORE!!
There’s nothing wronge with being prepared but keeping an assault rifle at arms distance at all times? There seems to be a lot of fear mongoring going on here lately . If your thinking home defense think…

  1. Security system
  2. Dog
  3. Motion lights
  4. Night lights
  5. Neighborhood watch programs
    Countless other things I’d concidering before keeping weapons stashed around my house or actually maintaining one near me at all times.
    I grew up in a nasty area and never once thought to be in such a high defensive mode all the time. If your always anticipating getting invaded by armor wearing teams of assassins when do you live your life?
    ** LAST STATMENT NOT DIRECTED TO THE OP BUT TO EVERYONE WHO ACTS THAT ACUALY PERTIANS TO THEM.
12

I missed this comment. I apologize… I thought you were a nut :stuck_out_tongue:
I have an infant as well an saw someone learking around my home as well. I was lucky enough to be able to confront them and that ended that. I see where your coming from. I’d Be concidering flood lights and motion sensors. They act like sun to vampires in most cases. If your community doesn’t slow that. Fake or real cameras made obvious when placed around your home work well to. Let’s be honest, most petty criminals aren’t smart or they’d have better jobs. Appearing to be more stand offish from your end will probably push then towards a softer target.
Stay safe and report back what you end up doing.

-Jesse

13

Hardening your home is more important than 5.56 vs 7.62. Installing a security door for your living quarters is a good idea. Installing hurricane film on your windows is also a good idea. Lastly, look at hardening your entry points: garage, back door, side door, front door, etc.

The type of threat dictates how you should prioritize. For example, is it a threat against you or members of your family, threat of stealing your stuff, etc. A threat against persons requires diligence when outside the home as well.

14

Leave, now. Seriously, if the threat is as high as you have intimated, there is nothing in your house worth dying for or seeing your wife and kid killed or raped in front of you.

15

A few thoughts.

  1. If you are indeed being cased then I suggest beefing up your house. That means possible addition of extra surveillance equipment and bright lights that will make it difficult for persons to get close w/o being detected.

  2. Look at making a room a “safe room”. Reinforce the door if possible, keep a cell phone and extra ammo and weapons inside.

  3. Rehearse some scenarios where you and the wife scoop up 'Little 6933" and secure yourselves in the room.

  4. Keeping an AR around is not difficult. I have no idea how old “little 6933” is but can she take a magazine, insert it, pull the charging handle and fire it? I am guessing no. So you keep AR and magazine close by and if necessary use a large rubber band and band the mag to your buttstock. Have the bolt forward and on SAFE.

  5. Consider carrying your sidearm at all times even in the home, if possible.

  6. See about adding a good outside dog. Not only are they early warning devices, but they may deter douches as well.

  7. Regardless of what happens, do not under any circumstances go searching for them if they make entry. Call 911, stand your ground and make them come to you. I doubt that they will be wearing vests and plates. If they are wearing standard body armor then any 5.56 round will just about tear through them. If you do engage them shoot them until the threat ceases. If they are down on the ground and still mobile and armed you are well within your rights to enage them as long as you can ARTICULATE it in court. I have no idea where you live but in many cases it won’t go that far. You also have the added benefit that local LE is aware of the situation.

16

Shhh, LonGuyland. I know we ain’t as sivilized as our NY/NJ crew, but we’ve got this under control.

I love that even supposedly pro-2nd people from the East think it’s crazy to have loaded guns around. Years of indoctrination really do work.

17

I never said I disagree with having loaded guns around. There’s a difference between having a loaded pistol in the nightstand or shotgun/AR near your bed. But having assault weapons stashed around your house or patrolling your own home with a weapon and a combat mindset is overkill.
Don’t get up my ass because I live in a blue state or talk down to me because I’ve been “brainwash”, don’t think that I’m not open minded to what goes on. I’ve grown up and live around people who fear guns, I know that a maniac who lives like that is fuel for their fire.

AND If someone thinks a gun is the only way of protecting themselves they’re fckin retarded. I’d rather set my home up to avoid invasion then prepare for it to happen. Yes I know it happens but making your house a hard target is smarter when you have a family to care for.

18

I’d say you’re on the right track, but that’s speculation from a civvie whose never been on any two-way ranges, except the kind with paintball guns.
I’d say that you’re better safe than sorry. They come through the door/window, light them the hell up. Screw two shots, riddle them with lead. That’s my plan, anyway. Then again, out where I am, I don’t have such concerns as over penetration into somebody’s house/car/etc. Anyone within range of the weapons in my home is on my property anyway.

19

+1 to this. You’re worried about caliber when there are way more effective methods to beef up security. I hate to sound like an ass but wtf?

If things are as bad as you make them sound, move! If a team of armored bg’s are not likely to raid your home but you still feel you are at a high threat level, take a step back from worrying about caliber and rifle selection. An ar is fine. Barricade your home. Harden your doors and windows. Make a plan and have a safe room, probably the infant’s room. Use lighting to your advantage inside an outside your house. Inside lighting which does not backlight your movements at night but light up the directions of likely intruders is ideal. Dogs rock!

Having a plan is crucial but don’t go crazy, you can never account for all possibilities. That’s what most amateurs do because they are not comfortable in their ability to adapt and improvise. Don’t plan to restrain bad guys, that is very risky. Hold at gunpoint and if you think the bg, in reasonable judgement, is a deadly threat, take appropriate action. Create and use choke points and barricades to your advantage. Consider channeling bg’s in a direction of your choosing. Don’t go Rambo and go hunting for bad guys, hold and ambush.

An if you separate, have established communication for linking up again so neither of you shoot the other under stressful circumstances.

Sorry for the format, am I’m a hurry so just a mix of thoughts off the top of my head. I hope you and your family are safe in this new year.

20

And when you leave the house? I understand the desire not to be specific about the threat, but if you harden your house, what about when you aren’t there, is the threat still present? Are you at risk on the move, at work? If you harden your life, what about close family members that can be used to to barter?

Here’s hoping that you just watched too much ‘Scarface’ over the holidays.