The Razor is great as well. I’d probably go MIL reticle if I had to do it over again as the JM-1 reticle is not a typical BDC and leaves a little to be desired IMO. But, it’s light and has a great 1x and edge to edge clarity.
As an update to this, thanks for all the advice. Picked up a used but like new Razor HD Gen II (not E model) in an ADM Recon mount with a Switchview for $750 today. VMR-2 mil reticle. I’d say I did just fine! Dunno if I’ll keep the mount just due to weight but for what I spent, I can sell it and go Geissele while still coming out ahead.
Get a used Trijicon TR24 for cheap. Absolutely fantastic optic.
^^Agreed.
Have one on a hard use carbine that’s never been a problem.
That’s what I’m using
I haven’t used the Trij but I think the Steiner P4Xi is truly the best budget optic. That being said, I love the Razor and OP got a hell of a deal on one.
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While I have the P4Xi on a carbine, it doesn’t seem to be in the same league with the Trij TR24- re. build quality/robustness (if that’s a word).
That said, I don’t think you can beat the P4Xi for price vs. quality FWIW.
I have a Steiner 1-4 “Military Tactical” that’s in a different league in terms of cost, obvious build quality and weight. It’s a great optic but too expensive, too heavy and was outdated soon after released and replaced with their 1-5X (??). Jeez- why not take the leap and go with a 1-6X?
My take is the P4Xi is an excellent “advanced hobbyist’s”/range/gamer optic more than a “duty grade” optic.
I had a chance a couple years ago to examine the Vortex lineup of LPVO’s. This was my intro to Vortex, I had no prior experience with them. The idea was that I was going to pick one and run it for a summer or Patrol Rifle classes and other testing. When I’m selecting an optic like this I’m looking for utility but also affordability-- something an officer can afford, but it has to be durable too. These two may be somewhat at odds, I mean, one presumes it and I guess even hopes for it. If you paid upward of $3000 for it, it ought to be more durable, dammit… but how do you find out, barring knocking it around, and at that price you aren’t going to knock it around! Which is a secondary downside to very expensive optics (besides the high price), in my opinion: the feeling that it needs to be babied. A guy should not have to bring a velvet pillow on call-outs for his scope.
Back to the Vortex selection. Knowing nothing about the prices (but one can look at the Razor and guess), I immediately rejected the Viper. The glass was waayy not as good as the Strike Eagle and Razor, and the FFP reticle was essentially of no use at low power. This has been my universal experience with LPVO that are FFP, to include some very expensive ones from S&B, NF, and US Otpics. All three of these had circle reticles that were of seriously inadequate illumination, and at low power good luck finding the circle fast. At 4X good luck making a precision shot with. Those three were ten years ago or so, so maybe they’re much improved now, I dunno. So the Viper was out; then the Razor was out due to size and weight plus I felt that with the glass so very close to the end of the tube, it would be more susceptible to breakage. I picked the Strike Eagle because I felt the glass was as good as or 95% as good as the Razor’s. The size and weight were more reasonable, and the reticle, in my opinion, was much better suited to carbines than the Razor’s. It has indeed proven over the last few seasons to be simple and fast, using the holdover dots for holdover on very close shots works well once learned (I write that info on the scope), and the dots for me have been nearly spot-on for 3 and 500 yard shooting-- certainly close enough for as fast as they are.
Durability-- again short of actual durability testing, all I can do is listen for general feedback… I mean my Strike Eagle has maybe 1200 rounds under it, hardly a test and yeah even though it wasn’t $3K I try not to bang it around. But sofar I have not heard of the going bad…?
Oh, the other downside… made in friggin’ China. That’s a turn off and of course we get Chines red dots in class from time to time that typically puke right away if they don’t fall off first, but I grudgingly concede that some Chinese glass is very good for the price.
Cool to hear that you’ve been having good experience with the Strike Eagle, but some of the information here seems to be a little off.
The optics in the Viper are significantly better than that of the Strike Eagle and that scope isn’t, nor has it ever been, FFP - Are you sure you were looking at a Viper after all? Come to think of it - even a Vortex? We don’t have any FFP LPVO’s as of right now. The Viper PST (Assuming we’re talking about the current Gen II 1-6x24 model) is SFP and is very similar to the Razor. Aside from being black, it’s basically identical to the Razor in look and features - even down to the daylight bright illuminated center dot in the reticle. The optics aren’t quite that of the Razor, but it’s also 1/2 the price of the Razor, so something’s gotta give.
Just figured we’d throw that out there to clear up any confusion.
Thanks!
It was a 1-4. For sure it was a Vortex and FFP, made in Phillippines…? MSRP about $500… Viper PST as I recall. Probably not current generation because this was about two years ago. On my examples anyway the glass was not as good as the other two.
If for sure Vortex and for sure 1-4x then you saw a true relic from the past - That would have to have been our Razor HD Gen I 1-4x24 FFP. Old scope and by today’s standards super outdated optically. Made in Japan though which is the confusing part. There was a PST Gen I 1-4x but it was never ever FFP and it’s optical quality is very noticeably better than the Strike Eagle. If the one you saw looked super wavy, chances are the diopter was jacked way out for someone else’s eyes. The order of optical quality goes Strike Eagle, then Viper PST (Gen I then Gen II) and finally Razor Gen II
For $500-600, the Viper PST G2 1-6x24 is hard to beat.
What does “duty grade” mean? Wouldn’t you, OP, be better off setting a price ceiling instead?
To me, it means functional and durable enough to merit taking into harm’s way. A list of optics meeting that (fluid) definition is going to vary from person to person, hence my asking for opinions, though something that elicits a similar level of confidence as an Aimpoint is a start. I did list a price ceiling; it’s in the first post. All that said, I made my purchase two days ago (Razor HD Gen II) as detailed above.
Yeah, I was pretty pleased. Thanks to you and others for steering toward the Razor. I now see for sure what all the hubbub is about. It’s just phenomenal (particularly like new for $750 in a decent mount…).
This. Mine has been used pretty hard and I have no complaints. I also have a Kahles K16i and while the Kahles is noticeably better, PST G2 1-6x24 is still good enough and similar enough, so that I don’t feel losing out very much. Kahles beats the Razor in FOV and weight, and probably also in durability.
Let me squeeze in on battery life here; I have a Razor 3-18 that’s about two years old that I’ve not yet changed the battery in, not a real test I guess but I have a Vortex venom RDS that I’ve been purposely leaving on since early January and no sigh of needing a battery change.
To go along with the “duty grade” LPVO topic… What kind of mount is generally considered a durable middle of the road non-QD option for a Viper PST II 1-6? Brownells is bundling their branded mount with the Vipers for $599 but there is nearly no feedback on that mount yet.
First visual inspection makes that look like a Warne mount and if that’s the case, jump on that deal as fast as possible because that’s a steal for a great scope and a great mount. If not, then check out one of the mounts made by Warne. We have one in our lineup dubbed the “Pro” series cantilever mount. https://vortexoptics.com/pro-extended-cantilever-mount-30-mm.html