I watched this yesterday and it just stuck in my head that Rob Pincus scenario is a joke, they started the segment with a completely plausible scenario and ruined it with their stupid outcome.
It was far worse than anything Hollyweird could have put out. If you want to learn good tactics, don’t watch TV, learn it from a good instructor, not Rob Pincus.
Watch the segment and then flame me.
What the hell is a tactical folding knife.
“Tactical” denotes it is either black, and/or has picatinny rails on it.
I don’t know Rob Pincus, have never taken a class from him, and have only seen his videos. Judging by what I’ve seen, while there are some methods he teaches that I don’t agree with, I don’t think I’d go so far as to call him a joke. Overall I’ve had the impression he seems to have his stuff pretty well in order. He may not be the second coming of Vickers, but whatever. TV is usually pretty cheesy in general, so I’d take it with a grain. Keep in mind, I haven’t seen this episode, so forgive me if I’m off base and it was completely ridiculous. 
While your post has the potential to be constructive, in its current form it is not.
Edited it a little bit.
Do you have a link to a video or something on this (didn’t see it on the outdoor channel website)? How does the scenario play out compared to your expectations?
I have NOT watched the video so my comments are “in general”.
The problem with watching short segments on TV is they have to be “dummy’d down” to the point most of the folks reading this forum don’t find them of much value. I don’t fault the instructor for that … it’s the nature of it. Not everyone that watches TV is a high speed operator nor have they had 8,600 hours of instruction. People that seek out forums like this usually have a decent base knowledge to build on.
I learned this recently myself. I watched one of the free DVDs Pincus’s group sent me. I felt it was really good so I ordered 3-4 more plus the complete first season of his show. Months later I finally watched one of the DVDs earlier this week. It was of VERY little use based on my current skill level … which isn’t very high to begin with. I don’t fault him for it. He knows his stuff and so do the other instructors on the vid (FTR it was the FUND of Long Guns). Unfortunately, it was more about basic choices/info than actual training. O well. Lesson learned. I don’t feel cheated … I just didn’t get anything from it.
Now, I want to go find that video you speak of. Is it in the first season? If so, I have it at home already.
EDIT: I re-read my post and want to be clear. I respect Pincus very much and would love to take one of his classes. I am holding out hope as one of my local instructors claims to be trying to work out hosting a class this fall. If so, I’m in like Flynn.
EDIT2: I don’t believe training should be received via TV or DVD. People need real live training. However, I don’t think watching videos can hurt as supplemental “info”. Sometimes that’s all folks have access to.
Best Defense
Alone in the Dark
Combining low-light tactics and home defense strategies to protect your family.
All Future Airings of Best Defense
Best Defense, OUTD May 19 1:30 PM
Best Defense, OUTD May 19 5:00 PM
Best Defense, OUTD May 19 9:00 PM
Best Defense, OUTD May 26 1:30 PM
Best Defense, OUTD May 26 5:00 PM
Best Defense, OUTD May 26 9:00 PM
Was that the scenario where the home invader was using an infant as a shield and he took the shot anyways despite the fact that there was little ambient light? If that is the case then I agree. There are very few people in the world that I would trust to make that shot, under those lighting conditions and that sort of stress. 99.99999% of the people watching that show lack the ability to ever consider taking a shot like that.
yes; thats the episode.
Watching those shows allow me to evaluate my personal tactics. In regards to that episode; everyone has their own take on lowlight tactics. A good primer for lowlight work is JW’s thread found on this, and several other, forum.
I think the issue really has to do with the audience that it is being delivered to and how it is delivered. In a classroom setting with a good instructor you can really cover how you work through your OODA loop in a scenario. It is done thoughtfully to students who know and understand those risks as evidenced by their attending a class to help mitigate those risks. IMHO tactics shows aren’t the best idea. To really work through a scenario like that takes much longer than they have time to show and it leaves the impression to the misinformed that taking a shot like that, under those circumstances, by an untrained shooter is a wise decision.
I remind myself daily that this board is populated by unique people who are atypical in relation to your average gun owner. Most of us can look at a show like that and see it for what it is but there are those out there that think it is a suitable substitute for real training. The producers of that show have to know that and in that context showing that scenario is reckless IMHO.
IMO there is alot of stuff being shown (on numerous shows) that are flat-out wrong regardless of the audience. Case in point… the twin LCP shooting displayed on Shooting Gallery by Gunsite staff.
Well duh.
C4
Great point.
It seems that there are a number of outfits today, which are relatively “mainstream” who are advocating plain garbage. But, for folks who don’t know better…they buy into it, then believe that what they learned must be the best way…then go and tell their buddies how great their class/instructor was.
More directly related to this topic, I have always wondered HOW Pincus got to “guru” status. For someone with only a few years in LE, who never put the TTPS he advocates into use in a “dynamic critical incident” :rolleyes:… I could never understand why people have felt he was the guy to go learn from.
I would have thought that after he threw a students pistol downrange in a fit of rage, that his career as a trainer would have come to an abrupt halt. Nope, instead, you get a TV show.
Go figure… 
Mr. Pincus,
Do you see, feel or think that representing yourself as a Training Professional, be that a trainer of LE types, Military heroes, HS professionals, Private Security operators or the Joe Civilian 2nd amendment follower presents ANY conflict or question of your merit, vetting, knowledge, or time on the street after your 2007 summer escapade during an IL class?
What escapade?
The one that took place during a live fire event (Combat Pocus course) in June at the Harvey IL range?
You remember, when you grabbed, snatched, removed the Glock pistol from your civilian students hands on the firing line and THREW THE PISTOL about 20 yards, over other shooters heads, downrange into the berm? Just wondering?
I don’t remember hearing of anyone that is a real deal teacher doing that move. I guess that’s what your boss and partner means by you’re an out of the box thinker?
Mike Grace
I guess it’s cool to flush Rule 1 of basic gun-handling down the toilet, and completely disrespect other peoples weapons and possessions…so long as you know everything. :rolleyes:
Here’s another gem… http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/106579/Critical-Incident-Reloading.html
Guess those guys who use the concept of “workspace” have a lot to learn from Rob.
It’s a shame that you really have to dig and do your research on who you choose to train with. I think a lot of well intentioned people have fallen victim to clever marketing. Hopefully sites which provide honest feedback, such as this one, will help people find out the truth about who they’re thinking of spending their hard earned money with.
Is the purpose of this thread simply to bash a particular trainer? Have any of the individuals bashing this trainer ever trained with him?
Just curious, I have no dog in this fight - never met R_P.
I sure hope my post didn’t appear to be a bash. I am actively seeking an opportunity to train with Pincus myself. I kind of wish I hadn’t posted at all now.
Is it “bashing” if it’s true?
Do you have to train at Front Sight before you have an issue with their practices?
Is it best to not say anything bad about anybody? And let people find things out on their own, after they’ve spent their money?
We have no problem calling out shortcomings with Olympic Arms carbines here…is it not OK to call out shortcomings with other products (training)?
I too am curious where the “line” is…as it’s not my intention to be on the other side of it.
If you feel it’s constructive to single out an instructor and continuously slam him, then knock yourself out. That last time you posted about an instructor that you didn’t like, it also happened to be R_P. So to a casual observer, it might seem like you have a hard-on specifically for R_P…
In my experience it’s easy to get caught up in that. These days I prefer to keep a much more open mind.
I’m just not into the “my guru vs. your guru” thing anymore.
Not really a hard on, but after what I thought was legitimate criticism got deleted (without an explanation/ response)…I wanted to put it back out there and see if it got deleted again/ covered up.
As I said above, my interest is in people knowing where they are spending their money, before they do so. If it’s true and worth knowing…why hide it?
I hear you on the “my guru vs. your guru” thing. I certainly agree that there is no “1 expert” who knows everything, or is the only guy worth training with. However, IMO, there certainly are impostors…and they shouldn’t go un-checked, if you ask me.
I went to Norwich University with Rob. I saw him for the first time in 16 years last month when we hosted one of his classes. Training dollars are tough to come by here in VT as I’m sure they are in the rest of the country. It was money well spent.
The class was a two day “Combat Focus” carbine and pistol class. I was very happy with the class. I was one of 11 local cops at the class. I know we all learned a great deal over those two days. I do not agree 100 percent with everything he taught, but that is pretty normal. I agreed with most of it.
I think I’ve also watched all of the episodes of the SWAT Magazine and Best Defense TV shows and I like them. Again I do not like 100 percent of it but I plan to watch the next season. I’ve saved several on my DVR. I think it’s like most things you should take what works for you from the experience.
In one of the TV shows I watched they did a spotlight on instructors. Rob is very clear about his back ground, he is not an impostor he is a professional trainer. He tells you he was a cop for a few years and in the Army Reserve.
If you only want to be trained by former Special Forces guys with combat experience there are plenty of folks like that out there. I’d like to get to a Vickers class and a Howe class some time. I know the training we received will help us with future training and it will make us safer on the street. That is exactly what we needed in our training.
From the prospective of hosting the class Rob was awesome to work with and very flexible.
I initiated this thread because the show itself gives real shooters a very bad name. Someone might actually listen to this guy and take a stupid shot and then say"That’s what they teach on that there Tv show", and then we all look like a bunch of Die Hard cowboys.
If you actually take the time to watch the episode you’ll walk away thinking “oh my god, they didn’t just do that”.
They actually created a plausible scenario but with an unrealistic “happy” outcome. These are not the kind of things we should support, I doubt my letter will do anything, but if they get a few dozen… maybe they’ll stop teaching that crap. And I seriously believe he teaches the same scenario in his classes.