Best 9x19 grain for Glock pistols?

[YoniMagav]

As someone who carried FMJ ammo for years, and still got the job done with our 9mm firearms. I am not sweating it much. I will note that my carry pistol and PDW (soon) is in 357 sig, which is substantially faster than the 9mm. I really have to get out and shoot something alive with the 357 sig.

My brain tells me that 2200-2300 fps, is well 2200-2300fps, and that even without the flutes must produce a lot more damage than a 9mm at 1100-1200 fps.

but

[MegademiC]

@yoni

As someone who carried FMJ ammo for years, and still got the job done with our 9mm firearms. I am not sweating it much. I will note that my carry pistol and PDW (soon) is in 357 sig, which is substantially faster than the 9mm. I really have to get out and shoot something alive with the 357 sig.

My brain tells me that 2200-2300 fps, is well 2200-2300fps, and that even without the flutes must produce a lot more damage than a 9mm at 1100-1200 fps.

but

Not necessarily. Bullets pushed to 5kfps produced pinholes when there was no bullet upset.

I suspect the flutes may cause tearing in certain tissues from the temp cavity, but id like to see real professional tests. That said - I find the idea interesting.

[T2C]

@Ron3

I’m only mildly interested in the stretch cavity performance of the Lehigh bullet.

If it cuts a hole as well as a jhp but does so while possessing the other advantages it has that’s good enough for me.

I

I am interested in knowing if the projectile will remain inside of the attacker or pass all the way through. I’ve seen the aftermath when +P+ passed all the way through and the exit wound was the same size as the entrance wound.

[Ron3]

@T2C

I am interested in knowing if the projectile will remain inside of the attacker or pass all the way through. I’ve seen the aftermath when +P+ passed all the way through and the exit wound was the same size as the entrance wound.

In the case of the lighter Lehigh bullets it seems they go 15-18 inches depending on what kind of gelatin or water is being used. Pushing them faster results in greater temporary disruption without increasing penetration. Similar to when a hollow point is pushed faster. Except they tend to penetrate less in those circumstances.

[Ron3]

@vicious_cb

I watched it, even Andrew agrees at the 9:00 “while it looks cool it doesnt really prove anything” https://youtu.be/FWgXc9L9vx0?t=543

The video conclusion’s is that its still a big question mark whether this wounding mechanism actually translates to real world performance. Im not sure how this relates to red dots on pistols, red dots pistols have been around for almost 2 decades in the competition world, and they only hit the main stream about 5 years ago?

Im pretty open minded to new tech if there is sufficient data to back something up, but there isnt in this case. Remember 4.6mm and Five-Seven also produce pretty dramatic temporary stretch cavities and no one is writing home about their spectacular real world performance.

I like his two videos on this bullet because he twice tries to disprove them and fails:

“Pff…I could load one of these backwards and get similar results!”

“Um, okay, well, that turned out not to be true at all. But, this was just gelatin, not real flesh, it means nothing. My test was meaningless.”

“NOW, I’ve got real meat! Now I can prove what a joke this bullet is compared to my favorite HST!”

“Hm. Well, it did as well or better. But, hey, this test means nothing! I’m not an expert anyway, what do I know?! Meaningless test!”

Kudos to him for being honest, though. Maybe he’ll try to fail these bullets a third time and finally accept they are pretty good bullets.

[jesuvuah]

@Ron3

There are many of videos of these bullets doing JHP-like damage to meat and gelatin. With more consistent performance than JHP’s.

But not from rifles.

Check this one out. Start at 4:30. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FWgXc9L9vx0

I think the lightweight Lehigh pistol bullets do as much damage as an expanded hollow point with fewer drawbacks (can’t clog, don’t have to expand) with additional benefits. (Lighter gun, less recoil, barrier blind, won’t break up, can penetrate some armor, less likely to over penetrate)

I do think they aren’t as desirable at longer ranges (50 yds?) Because being light they will lose momentum faster than a heavier bullet and may not penetrate enough.

It’s interesting how some people who quickly accepted red dot optics on pistols are very skeptical on new-tech bullets.

It’s very easy to test out a red dot for yourself. It’s a little harder to see how a bullet will perform on someone pumped up on drugs for yourself.

Soli Deo Gloria

[Disciple]

@MegademiC

Not necessarily. Bullets pushed to 5kfps produced pinholes when there was no bullet upset.

Is this result from a shrapnel or flechette test? I’d like to read more.

[Ron3]

@jesuvuah

It’s very easy to test out a red dot for yourself. It’s a little harder to see how a bullet will perform on someone pumped up on drugs for yourself.

Soli Deo Gloria

Yea that’s true.

[MegademiC]

@Disciple

Is this result from a shrapnel or flechette test? I’d like to read more.

Looks like “pinhole” is not quite accurate, but the poi t is the same. It was a comment from docgkr

Edit: 6k-6500fps
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?34904-Temporary-Cavitation-Wounding-Rifle-vs-Pistol&

[RHINOWSO]

147gr+P or Standard HST (depending on availability) for G19/G45
124gr+P or Standard HST (depending on availability) for G43X/G43

I like Speer 124gr Short Barrel for G43X/G43/PPS, but it’s too hard to find / too expensive compared to HST.

[Groyper]

@1168

I go the opposite direction and carry 147gr RA9T in my time off. Consistently meets FBI penetration standards from a variety of barrel lengths with above average penetration and expansion, subsonic in a pistol, says “Ranger” right on the box.

What’s the objective here?

Ideally the best defensive weight/round possible for the caliber.

[Ron3]

I’ve returned to conventional JHP’s in my Beretta Centurion for two reasons:

1. There isn’t much armor that might be used by a BG the 68 gr bullet at 1715 fps (my chronograph) will defeat. Many of the inexpensive armor panels are IIIA, IIIA “+”, or higher.

2. It doesn’t take long for these very lightweight bullets to lose velocity. I believe that by 50 yds the penetration capability will be comprised. (Against any target) Good for misses, bad for hits.

I still like them in my Beretta Cheetah. Same 68 gr bullet, 1405 fps. I don’t like the performance of any .380 JHP, and don’t care for FMJ, either. I think the LeHigh bullet is good vs. FMJ here.

I’m carrying Underwood 147 +p+ Gold Dot now. (1080 fps my chronograph)

My 92X Centurion has a larger bore and shoots everything a little slower for the length. (4.25 in)

I still like the Underwood 68 +P for 9mm PCC’s, too, for HD. My CX4 pushes them out at about 2100 fps.