I know its a oxymoron. Let me explain before the inevitable flaming, and beat-down occurs.
I’m seriously debating on getting a .22LR pocket pistol like a Beretta 21A as a BUG. The reason is at our workshop, I am 99% more likely to be a victim of a Copperhead, Cottonmouth, or Timber Rattlesnake bite than a human attacker due to it being by a heavily wooded (and secluded) lake. Plus it would be quieter than a centerfire cartridge as not to disturb the only local resident near our shop. I ALWAYS have a M9 or G17 on me, and my business partner normally has his G17 on him. So this will NOT be a primary defensive firearm.
So a .22 would actually be ideal to be in my pocket over a .380 for the intended use. I am in no way thinking a .22 is near ideal for defensive use, and this would pretty much only be in use at work.
However, assuming that I expended all my 9mm (and my business partner expends all his), and I’m only left with a .22LR… what would be the “best” load to reach 12" of penetration?
Anyone have experience with that Paco Tool for forming the bullet? Looks pretty interesting since I have thousands of rounds of round nose .22LR. But I wouldn’t drop $125 on it unless there was independent confirmation that it really improved accuracy and terminal effectiveness on critters.
I would opt for a decent quality solid with a flat/truncated nose if possible to ensure penetration. CCI Velocitor is the only common hollowpoint that comes close as far as adequate penetration is concerned (as far as I know). In my mind, penetration and adequate ignition/cartridge quality are going to be the two major areas where the .22 is consistently lacking.
Also, do a search at the leverguns.com site (which Paco owns and where he has the order form for the tool) and search on “ACU’RZR” for a years worth of archived threads, including hunting results, but not actual use in SD.
Given that your “back-up” gun is going to have, at most, a three inch barrel, muzzle velocity will likely not exceed 950 fps and depending upon the expansion threshold of the JHP you use (should you select one), the JHP will probably not expand. I’d ask the ammo manufacturer if they can provide you with that number and use that to determine whether or not your pistol can produce the velocity (time for a chronograph session :D) necessary to initiate expansion.
When it comes to “back up” guns in miniature calibers, I’d go with the heaviest LRN (40 gr. LRNs seem to be the “standard” without getting into the one 60 gr. “novelty load” that I am aware of) at the highest velocity possible to guarantee penetration to the vitals and plan on dumping the entire magazine into the threat.
Good advice. If someone insists on using a .22 for defense, one of the lightweight hyper velocity hollow points would be the last thing you’d want. They’re designed to fragment in squirrel size targets.
OP, I’d check and see if your Beretta will feed these.
The O/P first stated he was looking for a quieter way to dispatch a unwanted snake which did not have the report of his Glock Model-17 9mm pistol. In my experience trying to hit a moving fang slinger with a little .22LR solid is a real challenge but if I recall correctly the last batch of snake repellent I used was in 9mm and .38spl shot shells from CCI which had a lesser report then standard loadings. The CCI shot shell is a very limited range single shot deal in a 9mm semi-auto pistol having to hand cycle the pistols action to load another round but the .38spl version function as a normal revolver would. I would suggest carrying at least one if not two 17rd spare magazines for your Glock giving you a total of 35/52rds to get out of harms way over carrying a .22LR pistol as a back-up, but if you feel the need to carry a second gun IMHO a better choice over a .22LR would be a little J-Frame .38spl loaded with 5 shots of Speer’s 38 Special+P 135 Grain GOLD DOT Short Barrel Hollow Points http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullet_tests.htm and carry a speed loader of .38spl shot shells to deal with a possible snake encounter.
I had actually thought about the shotshell cartridges, but its a specialty round that won’t work an automatic. I decided against going down the revolver path since I never shoot them as well as autos.
I’m pretty adamant about keeping this a .22LR for several reasons:
Report
Effective against its primary threats (Venomous Snakes)
Cheap cost & practice
While rimfire is not as consistent as centerfire, quality rimfire cartridges tend to always work (NEVER seen a FTF with CCI Rimfire).
I can do some plinking with it if I wanted to as well.
So while its far from ideal against a 200lb methhead, its actually ideal for my intended purpose. In fact, I will probably just use it as a BUG at work. When going home for the weekend, or going to town it would probably be replaced by a LCP.
I just don’t know what loading I should pick in the very rare case I would have to solely rely on it against a human threat.
(Also open to other small .22LR autos. Just planning on a 21A since I carry a M9 frequently).
In the event that you have to employ your Beretta 21A loaded with shotshells against a 200 pound “meth-head”, I believe that you’ll find it terribly lacking since those tiny #9 pellets (0.08 inches in diameter and ~0.75 grains in weight) will only provide about 2.50 - 3.00 inches of penetration (@ 850 - 950 fps) against soft tissue and will be deflected by even the thinnest bone should they encounter it after impact.
Although the device above (the Paco tool) is an interesting idea, if the bullet is fired at a velocity that will not initiate expansion with the factory formed JHP (the pressure produced at impact velocity fails to exceed the yield strength of the lead alloy composing the bullet which in turn drives expansion), altering a LRN to a JHP configuration with the tool is also unlikely to produce expansion. (plastic deformation)
I’d really urge you to stick with the fastest .22LR 40 gr. (plated) LRN that you can find, but ultimately the choice is yours.
The Aguila Interceptor suggested by sjc3081 seems to be a promising option.
I’ve never seen the 9mms run in several pistols. I’m leary of them, and I wouldn’t trust #12 shot out of a 12 gauge let alone a 9mm if I ever would have to use it against an attacker.
I also find it unacceptable to use any ammo that requires me to manipulate the slide. It defeats the purpose of a semiautomatic.
I’m leaning towards 481’s advice to go with a heavy 40-grain LRN. I think CCI’s SGB will fit the bill with it being a 40-grain LFN.
The OP states he plans to use his .22LR backup pistol for SNAKES! Not 200 lb meth heads. He carries a Glock for 2 legged critters. Please read the OP before criticizing him.
I know of a Sheriff’s department that issued the 21s to all of the troops, required that they carry it as a BUG on duty unless they supplied a larger caliber personal weapon, and allowed them to be carried off-duty as well. They actually trained and qual’d with the little guns, quite a bit since ammo was so cheap.
Not my first choice, but a .22lr NSR to a bad guy’s face ain’t a bad option to have vs no BUG at all.
Check out "Southnarc"s Total Protection site and look up “old man gun”. Claude Werner does a well thought out write-up on why he bought and modified a 21 for his dad (CT laser grips, tool on board to pop out a round in case of a fails-to-fire, etc.).
Ammo is whatever is most reliable in your gun, this is the most critical aspect.
Currently Claude uses CCI Mini Mags or the Velocitor as they have tested to be reliable in his gun. The Velocitor won’t expand from that short of a barrel, but it does open up just slightly in the tests he ran so that the bullet becomes very wadcutter-ish.
Stingers ain’t a bad choice either in my experience.
Doc can correct me on this, but almost any .22lr round, be it solid or HP, will pretty much act the same in gel, basically fails to expand and eventually yaws to a 180, penetration near 12" for the most part, give or take.
I think for your needs this ain’t a bad choice at all, and you can afford to become VERY good with a .22 due to low ammo costs.
I have thought many times about a .22 to carry as an “outdoor gun” in addition to my carry pistol. Every time I do, I relize that as much as I want a beretta 21 in .22 it is just not a good choice. For .22 I simply cannot see using any auto because of .22 ammo’s spotty reliability. The S&W 317 looks like about the best option as you can simply pull the trigger again and go to the next round. Or try the beretta in .25.
