Beginner Needs Help with a (Cheap and Plain) First Build

AR/M4 Custom Build Forum
1

Hello! First and foremost, I’d like to introduce myself. I’m Whootsinator, if I’m online, and I’m a ‘bit’ of a military and firearms enthusiast. I’m a resident of Cincinnati, OH. I came here after trying to join ar15.net, and I won’t ever return there again. The members of the site in the chat room were absolute a**holes and the site required a lot of personal information that no one on the internet needs from me unless I buy something from them. Needless to say, I wouldn’t recommend them to anyone.

I’m just getting into building up my own AR-15. These rifles are a far cry different from my 1935 Tula M91/30 and R700! With all of the options, I’m really feeling like I’ve been left alone in a big room full of people I don’t know, and the door behind me is locked tight. Ming helping a Newbie out, guys?

I’d like to build an AR-15 that is as close to an M16A2 as I can get it, without it being an NFA weapon. I’m not a big fan of ‘Tacti-Cool’ rifles, as I like to call them (I believe I’ve seen them called ‘bling rifles’ on this forum. :p). I’m looking for a 20in barrel, fixed A2 stock, A2 hand guards, standard A2 front sight, non-removable A2 rear sight, the whole nine yards, in 5.56x45mm, not .223. I’d rather have a little extra room than not enough and do damage.

I’ve got a few questions to start things off:

[ul]
[li]Single- and Two-Stage Triggers, what’s the difference and why are two-stage so much more expensive (and apparently better)? Again, is it worth it? I don’t think M16A2s had two-stage triggers, did they?
[/li][li]Eventually, but not for my first build, I’d really like a .308 or 7.62x51mm ‘Marksman’s Rifle’ type AR-15. I was looking at the Remington R-25, and I liked what I saw, but you can’t always trust what the people selling you the item says.
[/li][li]Some say that prices will be coming down shortly, and already have started to, from the giant leap that happened last year. What do you guys think about that? Should I just wait it out and see?
[/li][li]Are all of the standard A2 kits pretty much the same quality? They all appear to be the same, with only slight (~$100) variations in price. None claim to be any better than any of the others, they all just claim to be standard Mil-Spec.
[/li][li] Forged parts and machined parts (billets). What’s best, what’s worst, what’s the best for the price, what’s ‘true Mil-Spec’? Parts machined from billets are much more expensive on average… why?
[/li][li]When buying, are you paying for the quality, or just the name? Bushmaster seems particularly expensive and not so special.
[/li][li]Any distributors or sponsors here that I can get a good deal from for being a part of the site? That’d be awesome. :stuck_out_tongue:
[/li][li]What tools, if any, should I purchase before buying the rifle? Any particular cleaning supplies, multi-tools, etc?
[/li][li]Some people say that only the uninformed consider DPMS and CMMG (and other ‘medium’ brands) good rifles, and some say that they’re all crap unless you go with the top-dollar colts/bushmasters/etc, but some say they’re great. What’s the real story? Why are the medium brands always getting picked on or loved?
[/li][/ul]

Enough of the questions (for now :wink: ). So far, I’m thinking a standard A2 Rifle Kit from Del-Ton, with a Mega Stripped Lower Receiver from Rainier Arms, LLC. I’ve heard nothing but great things about Mega, and apparently machined billet parts are the best quality? Should I not get a charging handle from Del-Ton and go with a Mega Billet Charging Handle as well? It would be a cheap upgrade, if it’s an upgrade. The charging handle seems like a weak part, and is used quite often. Del-Ton claims its A2 kit is Mil-Spec, yet the included charging handle probably isn’t billet construction. Mega claims their charging handle is Mil-Spec, and is billet construction. Who in the hell is right?! :confused:

Other options include:
Kits -
[ul]
[li]J&T Distributing
[/li][li]Model 1 Sales
[/li][li]AR-15 Products(More expensive than the others, and appears less professional.
[/li][li]DPMS (Expensive, doesn’t appear to be any different from the others, and is out-of-stock)
[/li][li]AR15-kits
[/li][li]Whatever you guys decide to recommend to me! :thumb:
[/li][/ul]

Lowers -
[ul]
[li]CMMG from AIMSurplus(Big fan of AIM)
[/li][li]Superior Arms from AIM
[/li][li]Aero Precision from AIM
[/li][li]Armalite from AR15Pro (You can always trust Armalite!)
[/li][li]Bushmaster from AR15Pro(Machined, but cheaper… I thought machined was top quality and most expensive?)
[/li][li]2nd Bushmaster from AR15Pro(Forged and most expensive. Is it even worth $209, or am I paying for the name ‘Bushmaster’?)
[/li][li]Smith & Wesson MP15 from AR15Pro
[/li][li]Whatever you guys recommend again, I trust you! :thumb:
[/li][/ul]

Links and References to Other Pages:

http://www.del-ton.com/Product...ls.asp?ProductCode=RKT102
http://www.del-ton.com/
http://www.rainierarms.com/?pa...etail&product_id=1539
http://www.rainierarms.com/
http://www.rainierarms.com/?pa...etail&product_id=1159
http://jtdistributing.net/store/more_k_c20k.html
http://www.model1sales.com/ite...1244&CFTOKEN=13947517
http://www.ar15products.net/itmidx8.htm
http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/p...ts/?prod=841&cat=1532
http://www.ar15-kits.com/
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acat...56x45_Lower_Receiver.html
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acat...5_AR15_.223_Receiver.html
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acat...liber_Lower_Receiver.html
http://www.ar15pro.com/item/44...EAGLE_ARMS_STRIPPED_.aspx
http://www.ar15pro.com/item/44...ASTER_LOWER_STRIPPED.aspx
http://www.ar15pro.com/item/16...RIPPED_LOWER_6_8SPC_.aspx
http://www.ar15pro.com/item/77…_812003_223_Upper_Re.aspx

2

Welcome to M4C
Is this your first ar-15 ?
If you want the closest to a M-16a2 it would be a BCM lower from G&R tactical have grant install a fixed A2 butt stock and then order a BCM 20" upper and BCG it wont be a A2 because of the flat top upper BCM uses but it will be the closest thing to an A-4 that you could get with out the 3 shot burst FCG .

3

Read these sticky’s it will help with your knowledge base and give you an Idea of M4C.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=24397
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7009
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7463

4

Well… Unfortunately… The BCM upper isn’t offered in 20", as far as I can tell. Either way, I am STRICTLY looking for A2. non-removable carry handle required. There’s also no BCM lower in the ‘lowers’ category.

Yes, this will be my first AR-15.

5

BCM lower http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Dlower%20not%20follower%26searchstart%3D9%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html

BCM 20 inch uppers http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BCM-URG-GOV-20&Show=ExtInfo

My knowledge is mostly with LMT, BCM , little bit of Saber Def.
none of them make a standard A2 model saber def has an A-3 NM and A-4 model.
Please read the stickies and GOTM4 , GRANTS and ROBS posts they explain the differences in manufactures AR-15 it will also explain MIL-SPEC requirements and it will help you choose between manufactures [ 4150cmv, HPT/MPI and proper chamber specs]

6

My mistakes… The BCM lower isn’t in the lowers category, and there’s no Bravo Company in the manufacturers list. Apparently G&R has some organizational issues.

I thought you meant the BCM upper was at G&R as well.

I don’t have the cash to spend $1,000+ on a rifle right now, so BCM is unfortunately out of the question. If it was a little bit cheaper, maybe I would get a removable carry handle and do an A4 type build, or an A2 with removable carry handle.

7

What is the primary purpose you want to use the rifle for? Range Gun [plinking]
Competition [Target shooting] Self Defense [serious use something you can depend your life on].

8

How comfortable are you with actually “building” a rifle?
Can you do the assembly yourself?
Go to http://www.ar15builder.com/ and click on the Instructional Videos link at the bottom and watch the videos.
They explain a lot and show a lot more.

The Mega lower you link to has a different look to it than an issue A2;

IIRC, an A2 has a rifle twist of 1:7 whereas the rifle kit you linked to has a 1:9.
I would say find a Stag or AeroPrecision or someother stripped lower on gunbroker and start from there if you are interested in actually doing the build yourself.
There are a number of stripped lowers that are just fine to start from in the $100 range including shipping.

Something else important to keep in mind is which state you are in and if there are any legal limitations related to that.

9

No legal limitations.

I meant to make an edit. The Mega lower was recommended to me, but I didn’t look closely at the front, where I saw that it looked very different from an A2. Wouldn’t fit. Instead, I’ll probably go with one of the AIM Surplus stripped lowers, or the M&P 15 lower from AR15pro. I like AIM, and they’re local to me.

I didn’t think the use would matter a whole lot, if I’m trying to to just build a simple A2, so I didn’t include it. It’d just be a range gun.

I do not have the tools to build a completely disassembled rifle, which is why I was looking at some of the kits I listed, which I’m pretty sure come as an LPK, stock assembly, and assembled upper. Much easier to just assemble a lower from an LPK than assemble an entire upper. Buying the tools to do so would break my budget. Hopefully in the future…

M&P 15 Lower - https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/55244

10

This site is mainly about the battle rifle AR15 and not so much about the hobbyist rifle. Not to say they don’t enjoy the hobbyist rifle here but you will get a lot of advice pushing you to the upper end combat rifles like Colt, BCM etc. and most have a flat top receiver.

With that said; I have no problems with the Del-Ton A2 upper http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Barrel_Assembly_p/dt1012.htm I think it would work fine for your project. But a couple of things 1/9 twist will not allow you to shoot the “heavy stuff” 68-75+ grain ammo with any accuracy. 1/9 twist is fine for the 55grain plinking ammo you are likely to use. I am uncertain what bolt carrier group, BCG, Del-Ton uses? You may want to do some research on BCGs; like proper staking etc. You may have to update some of the components of the BCG to improve the reliability etc.

Forged is fine!!! Save your money and don’t worry about machined vs forged.

P.S. I wouldn’t worry about a two stage trigger unless you find one cheap in your lower parts kit. As for the LPK I have been seeing a lot of DPMS locally floating around lately and should work fine for your rifle. Else I would look around and find a decently priced LPK, Stag, DPMS, RRA etc.