Be prepared before the class and my experiences.

Dealers/ Manufacturers/ Regional/ Info TigerSwan
1

I would just like to say a little something for future and possible trainees attending these training courses. I recently went to the “Intro to Carbine Course” at the Fayetteville NC location, and was quite disappointed with some of the other people attending the class.

If you would, please take a look at some things I would suggest before taking any type of training course.

First- Know your rifle.
More than half the class had brought rifles that they had never shot yet, or had barely ever handled. A few of the rifles had been brought to the class basically out of the box, without even lube!

Second- Know your optics/sights.
This was most likely the biggest problem in the class. We had to waste 45 minutes of the morning sighting in rifles. This of course can be tied into knowing your rifle. If you have iron sights, sight them in before any classes. Many of us, including myself, had flip up iron sights. Be sure that they are installed correctly. An individual had installed his front sight post on top of his “custom gas block”. The “rails” on top of his gas block were on a significantly lower plane than his rear sight.
Know your optics and how they work. A student had an EoTech Xps2, but didn’t know how to operate it, or how to install it. The battery on it was dying causing it to turn off while shooting, but he didn’t know it this is caused by the battery. That same EoTech flew off of the rifle a few minutes later from failure to install correctly.

Third- Get what you pay for.
If you bring a basic, low end $400 rifle, and fail to properly lubricate it, do not be upset with your weapon when it malfunctions to the point that it is unsafe to use.
The same can be said with cheap ammo and optics. If you are going to shoot cheap Wolf Ammo, expect failure to fire, failure to feed, and failure to eject. It happened all day with his particular ammo choice. A particular student had bought a $100 chinese red dot at a local gun show vendor. The problem at had though, was the fact that the optic failed to maintain zero after every 5-7 rounds.

Fourth- Know your gear.
This includes magazines. It was an intro course, lets be honest, but many people, including myself, had padded belts and mag pouches. If you have a “Condor” belt and it rips before lunch, be prepared for this. If you are going to use basic GI mags, be ready for a possible feeding issue.

Fifth- Know your limits/be prepared.
These classes are an all day thing. In my particular experience, it was in the middle of North Carolina Summer. Wear appropriate clothing for the occasion. Bring a change of clothes for possible weather changes, or strictly for comfort on the ride home. Eat appropriately the day before and during. For the most part, HYDRATE HYDRATE HYDRATE. Its going to be a long day with more mental stress than the normal person will be used to.

Final Thoughts.

I am a firm believer that there is no such thing as a bad training day, as long as you are out there putting rounds down range and getting trigger time with your weapons. Take as much as you can from these classes, the instructors are incredibly knowledgeable. I know gear can be expensive, but if you simply can’t afford the name brand gear, be prepared to fix what you have if needed. Know your weapons and gear. Be comfortable with what you are using. The issues I brought up cost the entire class quite a bit of time, causing us to run out of time and not finishing a few of the final things in the class. And mostly, have a good time and enjoy the experience!

Molon Labe

2

All good points, however, I’ve shot close to 35K of Wolf & 15K of brown bear to date. I use it as training fodder during my range time and rarely clean my weapons, maybe every 3-5K rounds fired, just lube. I have taken several carbine courses, using both with no issues what so ever. I don’t even clean my weapons prior to a class. I might wipe down the BCG and relube, if needed…maybe. Even came in top shooter a few times. That’s with 5 ARs. What’s more important is that you have a quality and properly chambered 5.56 weapon to begin with, and if it doesn’t run Wolf, having the knowledge to tune it up so it can. That’s the problem…A quality weapon should be able to run anything out their, including eastern european steel cased ammo. When they don’t…people don’t know how to fine tune them to run it.

Anyway…there are several threads thats been here a while with similar tips for a carbine course…

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=69644

3

Hey Roger, thanks for the reply. I agree with you in the fact that imported ammo will work just fine as long as, like you stated, you know what works with your gun and what doesn’t. In your instance, like you said, you tuned your gun to run that type of ammo, and because it is quite dirty ammo, you keep your gun lubed.

Seeing how it was a basic course, and many people taking a class like that will most likely just be getting into carbines and such, they did not know to try that particular ammo before trying to run a few hundred rounds through a dry gun! Sorry I didn’t know about the other posts about this topic, I’m pretty new to the forum thing. In no regards do I consider myself a expert or anything like that in any means. I just happened to be slightly more experienced than a few of the others taking the class, and wanted to share my thoughts for upcoming students in similar classes.

Thanks again for the reply RogerinTPA

4

You expect people to show up with a real zero to a intro course ?
Theres a reason its an “Intro” course, its exactly where those people need to show up.

I wouldnt want anyone thinking they should already know what they are doing before they receive instruction. THATS WHAT THE INSTRUCTION IS FOR.

Now show up like that an an advanced class and lets start making fun of people.

5

I agree. I just took a basic carbine class. Key word being “basic”. While I might have been a little more high speed than some of the class, I certainly had a couple embarrassing moments myself, including a failed (high dollar, well respected) optic. I knew going in that it was a “basic” class and I expected the pains of some in the group not being able to keep up. As a testament to the quality of instruction, the second day was remarkably smooth as almost everyone had their shit squared away on day two. The purpose of taking an intro or basic class is to learn how to zero and learn what is shit equipment.

BTW…nothing wrong with GI mags. In fact, in my recent class the instructor recommends them.

6

Yeah, I understand it is a basic course and there are going to be some bare bone new shooters there, not saying that they shouldn’t. I just wanted to say a little something to possibly help prepare them for the class. That way, it could be less stressful for them, and they could possibly learn a bit more instead of worrying about basic stuff.

About GI mags. I have quite a few of them. They work out great. I happen to change out the followers for some warm fuzzie feelings. Some had brought very used GI mags, and the feed lips were cracked, causing bad feeds while resting the rifle on the mag in the prone position. I myself had one double feed in the duration of the class. It was the magazine, so I threw it out.

Like I said, I’m not trying to say anything bad about these guys or anything, just want to help the next guys.

7

No worries Sheep Dog. We all do what we can to help each other out and learn from each other…welcome to M4C.

8

Cool enough. Point out why a mag is bad to a new shooter and they will learn.

In all honesty, my biggest pet peeve in any class is not having enough mags. You can buy 10 GI mags for $100. That’s a small price to pay in today’s world of firearms. Load all of them before class and bring them. If you can afford it, bring 20. I brought 18 to my last class. While everyone was running back to load the only three mags they brought, I got to relax.

9

Good for you…

Training opportunities don’t come my way often so I have to travel to most of my training courses. Hard to take all those loaded mags on the airplane with me. It’s kind of frowned upon.

10

Bring empty mags. Load them in your hotel room the night before. It doesn’t take rocket science…

11

F2s has a “your first training class” kinda thread posted in the training room. If I was a instructor, I’d have my own checklist which would be part of every confirmation email sent to students. Zeroing is iffy, bc a new guy might show up with his atempt @ a zero more geeked up then if he would have just left it at mechanical zero.

sent from mah gun,using my sights

12

This was an entry class. Exactly what to be expected. What other type of class would a beginner take? These guys should be applauded for getting off the couch and wanting to learn. An Intro. class is where someone with no experience would go.

13

If someone hasn’t sighted in the rifle they are going to take a “basic carbine” class with, may I suggest they sign up for an Appleseed program. This will get them where they need to be without spending a lot of money and little or no pressure, just good advice. At least they will know if the ammo they think they are going to use will function as they hope, will have the basics of sight adjustment acquired and have basic understanding of how the gun operates. Instructors pre-class intro usually spell out the requirements, those attending should read and understand them. “Basic” does not mean you show up knowing nothing or just took the gun out of the box- nobody cares if it’s shiny.

14

I think the course name is a bit misleading. After reading the description, I would change it: Intro to shooting a carbine. With their current name, I just assumed they wold talk about fieldstripping, cleaning, maintenance and nomenclature. But it seems like they dont. Did they for your class?

Found this little gem on their website:
“Prerequisite: None – this is an introductory course.”

^ every time I sign up for a class with this, I expect them to teach to the lowest common denominator. If you expect a level of knowledge or experience from your fellow classmates, I would take a different course with more stringent prerequisites

15

What would you name a course for those looking for instruction on their newly acquired Carbines?

16

Reading the course description, it doesn’t seem like an entry class. According to curriculum you do safety, operation, then start shooting.

17

Carlo- I believe he left out the word “level” as in entry level class.

18

Carlo- got to agree with you, the course description is about is about as basic as it gets. It says “Prerequisite None- this is an introductory course”. The mishaps with mags, sights, being unfamiliar with the operating system is what I would have to expect based on how it is advertised. If someone showed up with a NIB carbine, I would have to hope this class would get him squared away. Sometimes it’s easy to forget how much you do know and that once upon a time everyone picked up that AR for the first time.

19

I know he meant entry level class and not “entry” like “room entry”. Still … reading the the course description and the curriculum, I wouldn’t classify the course entry level or beginner course since it doesn’t deal with the first time user of an AR15 platform. If it did, then it would have stated: field stripping, cleaning, lubricating, etc. I may be talking out of my ass here but I just get confused from the title of the class, Tigerswan’s 1-Day Introductory Carbine Course, yet the curriculum doesn’t reflect this to be an introduction to the carbine but an introduction to shooting the carbine.

For those taking courses in the future from any training company, please be sure to read class descriptions, course curriculum, and the prerequisites. When in doubt, email the company. AARs are also a great asset especially if it’s recent to when you plan on attending said course.

20

There is something to be said for the idea that if you’re looking to maximize how much learning you get from your dollar and are willing to put out 100% effort to do so, sign up for the most stringent class you can.
That said, this requires some self-awareness to realize what would constitute really pushing yourself, and what sets yourself up to be ‘that guy’ the entire time (with the reasonable expectation that if you’re doing it right, it’s still going to be the case once you’re getting really tired).