I was about to buy a BCM Recce 16 from Grant, then I saw the thread about the Centurion rifle and now I’m quite torn! Anyone have any insight on this topic? Centurion complete vs BCM Recce 16. Or is there another I’m missing? For a little backgroud, I’m looking for a good quality do it all type carbine (fully aware of the limits of that statement). The Price is flexible to a point, but I like simple and proven. It will likely get a vortex razor 1-6, backup irons, ect… Basically the “one” rifle, if you could only have one (not that I’m going to limit myself). Thanks for any help, long time lurker, almost never post anything.
You can’t really make a wrong choice here. Obviously, BCM has a much more established track record as far as complete rifles go but Centurion has a long history of general quality with their products as well. If you’re evenly split between roll marks, I’d snag whichever is cheaper.
As far as others are concerned (since you asked), Sionics is worth a look. I just built an upper using their barrel and rail (would have bought a complete upper but prefer no forward assist receivers as a lefty). I’ve also used three of their LPKs. Very impressed so far.
I was about to say the same thing basically. I would give sionics a serious consideration. All three are good options.
Thanks for the quick replies, I agree it looks like both would fit the bill pretty closely. I mostly wanted a second set of eyes on the specs. The main differences appear to be in the subjective areas: trigger, rail, stock, muzzle device, ect… I will look into sionics a look. I’m open to suggestions and first hand accounts.
That’s exactly it and it’s exactly that: subjective. Those parts may change as your preferences change, so don’t get too hung up on them. As long as you start with a good barrel, BCG, and an in-spec receiver set (along with perhaps the most important feature: correct assembly) your rifle is likely to be solid. BCM, Centurion, and Sionics should all deliver on that front (as well as others; though the price points may be significantly different).
I was just in the market and was found a used Recce 16 for less than a Centurion so I went with that.
Price would be my only factor making a choice between those two, as long as neither had any Geissele rails on them. (Yuck)
Oh yeah? Where did you get it?
Haha, That was quick.
I was actually going to add “a perfectly maintained used Recce 16 in immaculate condition that shoots like a laser beam.” but figured you might not see it and didn’t want to make these fine people jealous.
Would you mind expanding on the Geissele rail thing? I own nothing Geissele but have considered their rails for future builds and had always been under the impression they were highly regarded.
Objectively they are strong, but expensive.
Subjectively, I still have one, I’ve installed several, and compared to every other rail I’ve ever owned (KAC BCM, Centurion, DD, etc and even Larue) I think it is heavy, sharp, ugly and has a terrible feel.
I prefer literally any other known-quality brand (except ALG, lol) for rails than Geissele.
Fair enough. I have no hands-on experience with them whatsoever. I have a KMR-A, MI Gen 3, and now the Sionics. I like the first two but the Sionics and its long barrel nut (lots of surface area) really impress me.
I have a complete BCM 11.5" rifle plus a second BCM 11.5" upper. I also have a complete Sionics 16" rifle. I have no problem recommending either brand, however I prefer the NP3 coated BCG from Sionics no matter which brand of rifle we’re talking about. I have no experience with Centurion, but given their reputation I would like to try one out.
For those talking about the Geissele rails, I originally put my Sionics together with a Geissele Mk8. I have no doubt it was very strong, but it was also very uncomfortable to hold IMO. When Sionics put out their own M-Lok rail I replaced the Geissele rail with it and I find that it’s much more comfortable. I have no idea if it’s as strong as the Geissele, but it’s definitely strong enough for my use.
Well you couldn’t have gotten it from me. The one I had was a beat up old thing with a loose rail, rusted, no rifling and a bent barrel. Yours sounds real nice though. Congrats.
One interesting thing which I am looking to clarify, is the status of cold hammer forged barrels on the Recce rifles from BCM. The Centurion is for sure hammer forged, Bravo doesn’t seem to mention this spec on their site anymore, none of the complete rifles specify “BFH.” On Grant’s site their are both BFH designated Recce rifles (+$77) and there are non-BFH rifles. I have an email in to BCM in attempt to see whats up.
If you go the BCM route, have you considered buying the lower and upper separately? Then you get the Hammer Forged barrel upper you desire, possible a little cheaper, saving the excise tax. I’m a fan of Sionics and have (wife does really) a patrol 3-E w/ LW barrel. Love it! I shoot it more than she does. Both BCM and Sionics have been trouble free rifles for me with several thousand rounds thru both. Never driven over one or dumped in the ocean like Euro, but they have run well thru a couple of classes. No experience Centurion.
What do you have on your precision shooter? Is that the Geissele?
I have no experience with Centurion. I have experience with both BCM and Sionics. They are both good to go. However, in my interactions with both companies, the CS is 5 star plus with Sionics. Expeditious replies to emails and they answer the phone and are helpful, courteous and knowledgeable. BCM has good CS, but sometimes it can be a day or two for a response to an email and no phone contact.
Cheers, Steve
I’m glad you mentioned this since I forgot to. This has been my exact experience as well. BCM CS isn’t bad, but Sionics is among the best I’ve ever dealt with.
One thing with Centurion is that you can KNOW going in that if you need support after the sale, you’ll get it, and directly from the top if you need it and didn’t already start there. I can vouch for that from personal experience. I hear the same is true of SIONICS, though I don’t have any personal experience with them. They have some official LEO contracts afaik, so they can claim to be properly vetted. BCM has also given me great customer care after the fact, but not quite as personalized as Centurion. I think that’s just mostly a factor or each companies size though, and the stage of life cycle each is in. Can’t really go wrong with any of the three imo.
My 2 cents:
customer service: Centurion over BCM every time. 100x better
reliability/service life: same
component quality/assembly: probably the same - much higher than the industry average
brand experience: BCM is much more widespread in firearms community, not necessarily better but more exposure
customizations: BCM - a lot more barrel lengths, types, muzzle devices, options and configurations. Centurion has a much wider rail selection.
rails: both are great, I personally prefer Centurion over BCM a little bit because of aesthetics and functionality. Both are very thin and convenient (in MLOK) for medium/large size hands. Centurion is slightly slimmer and has a QD built-in. For BCM you’ll have to use one mlok section for a QD swivel. If you prefer a thicker handguard look somewhere else or go with the Quad rails of either brand.
Technical caveats:
- BCM does not pin their gas block, Centurion does - not an issue from the technical/reliability standpoint
- Centurion upper and rails do not have engraved/laser T-marks, BCM does - not an issue for me personally, but technically speaking not 100% mil-spec. I can see how some people might have a problem with it from the looks perspective.
Here is how I would currently choose:
Centurion - if you want something unique/interesting and different from majority AND barrel and rail selection suits you. Their rails and barrels are excellent. Also if you want or value amazing customer service they have.
BCM - If you want a longer track record of reliability in the industry (not to say anything bad about Centurion reliability), possibly better resale value, specific barrel length/profile, muzzle device, or some other options which BCM offers.
I would personally lean towards Centurion as their current offering (price/features/value) is impossible to beat.