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Nice post, thank you.
David,
Nice post with excellent information. Unfortunately your knowledge about red dot sights is not as indepth as that of batteries.
Aimpoint sights using the patented ACET Light Emitting Diode draws only 0.6 miliamps of energy (less than what the battery discharges normally when unused) which is why Aimpoint can claim that a CompM3 will run 50,000 hours on setting 7 of 10, a CompM4 can run 80,000 with an AA Alkaline (new alkalines have a 7 year shelf life) or 10 years with a AA Lithium. The Micro T-1 runs five years on setting 8 of 12. Now your point about battery quality/temperature/environmental conditions do ring true regarding the impact to battery life. If a soldier/Marine/LEO keeps their Aimpoint at the nominal settings mentioned previously and adjust up or down based on lighting conditions battery life will be impacted, but they will still be measured in years, not weeks like others. I always recommend Lithium batteries to military and LEO users.
Holographic Weapon Sights use a laser to project the sighting image on the square reticle. The laser uses 200 miliamps of energy and as you stated must have the battery maintain a constant voltage. Which is why you’ll see the sight shut off with out notice due to the batteries usually with far less than the 500 hours (21 days) or 1000 hours (42 days). The batteries will still have about 20% of their life remaining, which is why you can take a AA battery out of a HWS put it in a CompM4 and run it for another year. Also, the red dot in an Aimpoint sight will start to loose brightness over the life of the battery, which the shooter can adjust by increasing the brightness with the switch. This is also a good indicator to the shooter that they may want to change the battery at some point in the future.
As to whether the battery in an Aimpoint CompM4 will last 7 years or a Micro T-1 five years is currently being proven. All of my Aimpoint sights are turned to their “nominal” settings and left there, other than when being adjusted due to lighting conditions. All are still on their original batteries 18 months later.
Go to www.downrange.tv/show2 to watch video clips Part 2 & 3 to observe just how durable and reliable (esp. regarding hold zero) the Aimpoint CompM4 and Micro T-1 sights are.
S/F
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David,
Regularly changing your batteries, like your oil, is never a bad idea. However, most trucking companies and the military take oil samples to determine whether the oil needs changing vice changing based on miles or hours used. This is a more cost effective and efficient, as well as a more accurate means of engine maintanence. The same can be said for batteries with regards to when you can notice the light or red dot dimming.
To say that battery life is not an issue for military or LE is wrong. I make that statement with two combat tours in Iraq under my belt, as well as Panama and HOA. Combat is always unpredictable and being able to leave your sight on for those moments that are least expected is essential to your life. The same can be said for an LEO having to quickly deploy his patrol rifle from his vehicle while under fire. I have been through a few night fighting courses, as well as a few on the “two way range” and properly adjusting your red dot for use with a white light is a simple TTP. Additionally my past life was exciting enough without having a sight with a battery saving auto shut off feature that decides it is time to save battery energy in the middle of a firefight or a building entry.
Life Cycle costs are something that must always be considered for military units and LEAs. An example is an Infantry Bn deployed to Iraq for 15 months will use over 40 batteries with an HWS for ONE battery with an Aimpoint sight. That is $50,000 out of the units O&M budget, not counting the expense and logistics burden to ship the batteries into and within the theater, nor the danger of exposing soldier/Marines/Airmen/sailors to enemy threats transporting the batteries across the battlefield. Life cycle costs to an LEA is also important as the agency (i.e. taxpayer) or individual officer must bear that expense.
S/F
Interesting.
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Comparing battery life is still an important criteria. Because, even if a given claimed number is “BS”, the order of magnitude is likely to be correct. And so if one mannufacturer’s claimed battery life is 1 to 2 orders of magnitude higher than the other manufacturer’s claims, that has meaning. Lots of meaning.
Whether it runs 80K hours, or 10K hours or 30K hours, that is a lot more than 500 or 1100 hours. As an example.
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I can’t imagine anyone bothering to read all this mumbo-jumbo.
Buy an Aimpoint.
Put the battery in it.
Turn it on.
Leave it on.
Change the battery once a year on your birthday just to be SUPER conservative.
Live a happy and full life.
Try that with any other RDS and fail.
I have read both what dtibbals and fjb wrote. Both are well meaninged and informative. Thank you gentlemen. 
Maybe, to avert further differences of opinion, let us just take what the other has stated simply as what was (i understood)intended … that is, the OP dtbbals wanted to inform us what other factors would generally affect battery life and fjb wanted to inform us that more than what has been explained by OP, Aimpoint uses a different technology altogether that uses minimal battery power hence longer than average battery life. 
Rob and Eyespy comments nailed this whole thread on the head.
David,
Not trying to be a prick, merely pointing out that your comments on batteries and battery life are valid, but your comments on red dot sights don’t track due to your limited experience with them. Regardless whether or not red dot sights are used by military servicemen, LEOs, or civilians they need to be ready when the user is least ready.
Your comments about the military using the ACOG or in the case of the Marine Corps the RCO are basically accurate. However, while you don’t need to change the battery of an ACOG or RCO you do need to change the Tritium, roughly every ten years as it fades over time. So you can change the Lithium battery in a CompM4 or send the ACOG/RCO into the factory for it to be replaced at a cost.
Yes you should conduct preventative maintenance on your carbine to include checking the battery. However, minimizing the logistics footprint for batteries is essential. Which is one of the many factors, primary being durability, why the US Army has bought over 256,000 CompM4s and intend to purchase another 565,000. Should an LEO or civilian not consider life cycle costs as one of the factors when choosing a sight? Esp. when they will typically spend $350 to $400 more in batteries over that of another make. Most importantly though is that they can leave the sight on constantly so that if they need it in an emergency that is one less thing to worry about when they reach for their carbine. Read Pat Roger’s article on this in the Nov issue of SWAT.
S/F
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We’ve got a couple of M3’s now that have been running continuously for 3 years–no signs yet of battery dimming or failure. I let you all know in a few years how the T1’s we got this year are doing; On the other hand, I’ve seen plenty of battery failures in EOTECH’s, often at the most inopportune time. Don’t think I have ever seen an issued EOTECH that made to the end of a year on a set of batteries–usually more like new batteries every month…
David
I think you are missing the point.
Claimed battery life is a very important factor in choosing an optic or sight. Choosing based on battery life is NOT a poor approach. Other factors are also important, but battery life, for me, is probably the first thing. If the battery life sucks, the rest does not matter.
While what you said was interesting from a technical perspective, it is all rather worthless to the discussion of choosing a red dot sight.
If a brand claims 80K hours, it does not matter if that is on average true, or only true in a lab, or only with the best batteries, or not at all. As long as the truth is in the same order of magnitude. And I am betting it is, based on real life reports. M3 claims of 50K hours = not quite 6 years. We now have real world reports of 3 years and going which is over 25K hours – same order of magnitude.
While each battery has a different initial charge (which we don’t know until we have discharged it in a controlled environment), or if brand A uses better materials than brand B, or if each battery’s self-discharge is different, as long as all the batteries we are talking about (for example, the normal “brand name” AA or 123 or 1/3n I can buy at wal-mart, target, best buy, k-mart, G&R Tactical, etc) fall within the same general parameters, then we can confidently use the various brand’s battery life claims to judge with. If brand A’s AA lasts twice as long as brand B’s, that is OK. They are in the same order of magnitude. If brand C self-discharges 10% slower than brand D, we are OK, as we are in the same order of magnitude.
All the variables you list for batteries are basically irrelevant because the differences are minor (in the same order of magnitude).
While battery life is not the ONLY factor to use when choosing a red dot or powdered optic, it is an important factor. If your weapon is a target gun only with an battery operated illuminated scope, then you can carry extra batteries and there is no harm if it goes out in most cases. If your weapon however is for plinking AND for serious work; protecting yourself and your family in time of need, then battery life is an important factor.
If Brand A red dot sight claims 80K hours, and as long as the truth of the matter is in the same order of magnitude (10K, 30K, 80k, it is all the same, and I am betting that ALL of your factors you list will still place things in the same order of magnitude for any normal battery you can buy in the US at reputable places, including Costco batteries, which are probably on the low end), that is a much better sight than one which has a claim of 500-1200 hours or so (as long as we are in the same order of magnitude).
I can leave my 80K sight on and change the battery once a year if I am conservative and anal and statistically speaking I will be GTG. I cannot do that with one that lasts 1-2 orders of magnitude less.
I used to use a Trijicon reflex sight because it did not take batteries (10 years ago up to about 5 years ago). All the battery powered sights at the time I got the Trijicon had 10-100 hour life spans on the batteries. It was just not worth it to me (as a normal Joe) that in the rare event of an emergency where I needed the rifle and sight, that I did not want to worry about batteries. So I chose one without.
However, when Aimpoint started to claim 10K hours with the M2 I took notice. I personally leave my M2 on the lowest and my ML2 on off since I a not in the military and even in the event of an emergency my first goal is to escape and evade, not confront, if I can; I figure I can turn on the sight if need be and I practice that occasionally. Others leave them on all the time to be sure it will always be available to do serious work at even the least inopprtune time. I have an extra battery on the rifle and have a battery in the sight that should be good (statistically speaking) for several years, so no I no longer worry about batteries. I will replace the battery once in a while. There is no other sight (except Trijicon and their dots, in my experience, tend to wash out more easily during the bright day) that I know of that can even approach that sort of “worry free” approach to battery management.
And to the logistics of it all, that is a factor as well. Based on order of magnitude, Sight A that claims 50-80K (depending on model) battery hours, versus Sight B that claims 500-1200 battery hours, Sight B will cost me at least 10x more batteries. That is money that I would rather not spend. Yes, I have batteries available. But I’d rather not go through them and have to resupply them any faster than I have to.
This is not about brand bashing. I will give you that. It is merely a defense of the notion that battery life matters and is an important factor when choosing a red dot – at least ones that would be hypothetically used for what they were designed for and not just plinking (and any and all of my firearms are potential defensive ones – I want to get my lever actions mounted with T-1 or H-1 sights someday).
I sell both Aimpoint and EO Tech. I have a customer who has an EO Tech, bought an ML3, and after an hour of using it in his hand at his house, wants to send it back and trade it for another EO Tech. Fine, he does not think of his firearm as a defensive weapon but more a for-fun firearm and likes the EO Tech reticle better. I on the other hand have no EO Tech on any firearm, because the battery life issues #1 (doubts on durability #2).
As an aside: I had a guy come back from Iraq about 2 years ago. He had a few guys in his unit with EO Techs and they had been issued Aimpoint M2s (as we know them – the then M68 COO). He told me the guys with EO Techs hated them as they literally had to change batteries weekly. They put them away and went back to their issued Aimpoints. Battery life meant something to those guys.
Other guys love their EO Techs and the targeting reticle it provides and use them in Afghanistan and Iraq. They tend to just replace the batteries on a regular schedule whether they need them or not. That is how they manage it.
In each case above, battery life was an important consideration. Each group eventually decided differently but they accepted the battery life issue and worked around it.
best regards
Chad
Hell, with your newer T-1 and M4 sights you could go for two years and even that would be much to early.
Gotta agree with Rob here, get the new M68, slap in a quality lithium battery and be done with it.
David, good write up on the batteries, but when you can leave an Aimpoint sit in the corner turned on for 3 years, that’s a damn good reason to pick it over the EoTech which shuts off after 8 hours.
So what’s the point of this thread? You’re letting everyone know that your Chevy HHR gets 20 MPG when the manufacturer lists it as 25?
OK, duly noted.
How does this information benefit me in any way, shape, or form?
Incidentally, David, the problem with your initial post is that it’s based on all kinds of faulty premises. People DO leave their optics on 25 hours a day, 8 days a week. At least people that own Aimpoints do. I know more than a few cops that, if they pull their rifle out of their car, the optic is on. Yep, that hot, dirty trunk contains a rifle with an Aimpoint on it that runs continuously for well over a year for them. Does it last 80k hours? Frankly, nobody cares. They change the $4 battery out well before it would ever die, just to be safe.
I think this is what he was trying to tell us.
That is exactly the point. That super duper long run time really does not matter since no one is letting them run till they die. But since everyone wants to make this a brand war on why everyone should buy an Aimpoint I deleted the info and will move on. They get so hung up on brands they fail to get the point as to why that is not the most important feature, yes it is important but its not like other brands are having to change the battery every day etc. Sure their are some users who choose to turn on a sight and let it run 100% of the time 24/7 then the aimpoint is a better choice over an eotech, however a Meprolight or Trijicon optic is a better choice at that point but oh well.