I’m looking for a basic carbine class in the North East within decent driving distance form NY.
I want to take the Redback One 2-day Tactical Carbine at the end of July and want to be prepared.
Any help is appreciated
What part of NY and what distance would you consider decent?
Not sure where in NY you are located but check out the MDTS classes…
They are holding their Combative Carbine Skills 1+2 class in Calverton,
NY on 5/22 and in Marietta, NY on 6/5. Chris Fry is a great guy and the classes are lots of fun.
More classes can be found in the 2011 class schedule…
6 hours drive tops maybe 7 if it was really worth it. I live in suffolk county on long island.
I looked at the MDTS class but it filled up in one day.
I guess its really hard to find this kind of training in this area.
There are two VSM instructors in Pa and both are members here. I would think that a VSM would offer an excellent primer for the Redback One class. Depending on traffic and what part of Suffolk county you’re in you can get out to train with Jay Cunningham in the Pittsburgh area in about seven hours or you can see if Joe Riedy has an upcoming class. He’s two and a half hours from the Huntington/Northport area.
If you are willing to drive 6-7 hours Red Back One is having a 2 day basic carbine class in Virginia Beach on March 19-20.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=68481&highlight=jason+falla
I’ve made the drive from Huntington (aboard Long Island) to the Stafford/Quantico area many, many times. It’s a 6hr drive according to Google Maps, but then one has to step away form the computer and re-enter reality, I’m afraid.
Between bridges, tolls, A-hole drivers, rush hours and the like, it generally takes 7-9 hrs for me to make my trip, and VA Beach is another 3hrs south. The folks I visit up there have made the same trip to visit me, and their best time was 8hrs.
VA Beach is probably outside the envelope. I think that the PA suggestion is the best bet, though I could have sworn that there was a decent training group in NH. I’m having a turd of a time finding the reference…
…but on that note, maybe call a training rep from the Sig Academy in NH and see what they have to say
Believe it or not, some of us are working hard to bring some quality training to the NE.
Last fall we were fortunate to have LAV in CT and NH.
Working on setting up additional classes (hopefully) in this area.
The biggest obstacle to doing this is finding cooperative ranges.
I think I’ve spoken with a dozen clubs in the region, and common objections to hosting training are
-
fudd-itis
-
restrictive range safety rules (example: static turns are a no-go)
-
reluctance by some clubs to allow classes where tuition is charged (go figure, like making money is a crime)
-
long lead times to get a class approved by a club.
-
restrictive state laws that limit participation from out of state residents (examples: difficult to get a handgun class set up in NY, AWBs, etc).
Slowly but surely, I think attitudes are changing. But we could use your help.
If anyone here has access to or is a member of an open-minded club that can host 16-20 students in the area, please let me know.
ETA: OP, if you are willing to drive a bit, I’d be happy to go through some basic carbine manual of arms with you.
I really would love to do the Red Back One course but yeah it’s pretty far. I might try and see if a buddy or two would want to take the trip. That would make it a lot easier.
I checked the Sig sight for NH but they dont have any real basic carbine courses available that I can see.
Private instruction would be great too. I would be willing to pay if it is a good instructor.
I have prior military training from about 14 years ago with the AR but I am not sure I remember a lot of it.
Big thanks to everyone that has posted so far
STG is doing a class in the Poconos:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1196
3-day pistol/carbine.
VA Beach/ USTC isn’t too bad of a drive…
After reading the STG website my sider sense is tingling. They don’t provide their instructors CV’s, they are long on name dropping and they use lingo not often associated with good instructors (extreme tactical, warrior training, etc). Hopefully I am wrong but if I am shelling out $600 it’s going to be with a top name instructor with a verifiable track record. Don’t get me wrong their training facility is about an hour and twenty minute from my house and it would be great to have a good resource that close to home but there is a whole lot of nothing on their website other than fluff.
rubberneck,
What you have to keep in mind is that they are contractually bound by their clients to NOT disclose exactly which units and organizations they are training.
Gents like JD at TigerSwan, Kyle Defoor, and Josh B. with Grey Group know the real deal. Here is what Kyle had to say:
http://www.kyledefoor.com/2011/01/answers.html
Why Sayoc? Because it’s the best real combatives I’ve ever seen. I could give a rusty fuck about some stylized competitive crap. Sayoc does a good job of taking elements from ground fighting, boxing, wrestling and making their own thing. The blade work is second to none as far as I’m concerned, and those that have been to my classes and took the challenge to get off a shot before I get my blade in a target (chime in if you please) have all lost . Tom from Sayoc has been in over 300 street fights, so it’s not theory at this point.
If there are other guys you’d rather take a class from, go for it. I just point this out because there is most certainly more than “fluff” behind their curriculum.
Good luck in your search,
Jim
Coolbreeze, thanks for the recommendation I will definitely keep them in mind for the future but I dont think I’m ready for them yet. This is a quote form there site “Student should be familiar with their weapon platform and nomenclature; this is not a beginner’s class” so like I
said down the road it sounds like a great course.
Coolbreeze you missed my point. I couldn’t careless who they have trained and in their case they have it plastered all over their homepage. I care about their instructors backgrounds. It takes two seconds to figure what experience Kyle Lamb, Larry Vickers, Jason Falla, Paul Howe, Travis Haley and Kyle Defoor have just by looking at their website. I looked at their website and there is no mention of who their training cadre is and what their backgrounds are.
As to your second point Kyle is referring to their combatives training not their firearm training. Maybe these guys are the bees knees when it comes to firearms, as well as combatives, but there is a whole lot of nothing on their website to back it up. While Tom may have been in 300 street fights (I would question the judgement of anyone that hasn’t been able to avoid being in that many street fights) how many gun fights has he been in? What is his military background? What firearms training does he have and with whom. All of that should be known up front as it is with every top name instructor.
That’s fine…and I don’t disagree with you. What I think is worth keeping in mind is that even the most “high speed” organizations seek training from OUTSIDE their high speed unit. Why do you think that is?
Why do Tier 1 shooters hire guys like Jerry Barnhart, Rob Leathem, John Shaw, etc…to teach them how to shoot? If experience with shooting people in the face was all that mattered, why are they looking outside of their community for training input? Why are face shooters asking competitive shooters to teach them?
There is no question that experience is important, but it’s not the only criteria for instructor selection, IMHO.
As to your second point Kyle is referring to their combatives training not their firearm training. Maybe these guys are the bees knees when it comes to firearms, as well as combatives, but there is a whole lot of nothing on their website to back it up. While Tom may have been in 300 street fights (I would question the judgement of anyone that hasn’t been able to avoid being in that many street fights) how many gun fights has he been in? What is his military background? What firearms training does he have and with whom. All of that should be known up front as it is with every top name instructor.
Their combatives and edged weapons program is what they are best known for, no question. Their firearms program has been influenced by a lot of different schools/units/camps. My advice would be to shoot them an email with your questions, and make up your own mind.
If you want some 3rd party feedback, shoot KD an email and ask him what he thinks of their firearms program in particular.
I’ve trained in their edged weapons, and combatives stuff. I’ve spent a lot of time on the range shooting with some of their instructors (a number of whom are good friends), too. I have NOT taken one of their firearms classes yet, but I hope to soon. I’m just trying to give you some honest feedback, and some places to look for objective opinions as mine are a little biased.
Fair enough.
By the area you mean NE? I can think of one club in MA that might work, and would be happy to do my best to make it happen for a free spot in the course. I’d think you would have little trouble in NH in particular no?
At that drive time, Sig Academy:
http://www.sigsaueracademy.com/
FYI, Jeff Gonzales does his carbine and handgun courses there.
There’s also S&W Training Academy in MA:
From their class description here: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=177600155609227&index=1
LEVEL 1.0:
- The Warrior Mindset
- Developing a Structured Training Program
- Marksmanship on Single and Multiple Targets
- Discrimination
- Weapons Management
- Basic Movement
It doesn’t sound like it would be too advanced for someone unless they have absolutely no experience.
Given the limited options for training in the northeast it sounds like a viable option.
Are any classes in 2011 likely? Another LAV class would be awesome!
Thanks