First off, thanks all for extremely good information on most aspects of shooting on here!
Secondly, I was unable to find anything on this using the search function, but I simply might not have been using the correct wording.
My lack of experience with the M4 is only second to my lack of basic reloading knowledge, or for that matter, a clue of what goes on when reloading:p
I’m trying to figure out the bare-bones tools and items needed to SAFELY and EFFECTIVELY reload .223/5.56.
This is not meant for high accuracy, simply reasonable accuracy for a beginning shooter to improve his skill set with the M4. I figure the less money I spend on ammo, the more I have for training.
Trying to figure out total cost of the necessary reloading equipment to get an idea of what I can do and what I can’t.
Things you need, in approximately the order you will need them: Empty cases (duh)
Boxes, bins, buckets & bowls to sort brass in (different cartridges, and different stages of processing)
Load data books (downloadable from most powder makers)
Press (single-stage recommended for beginners)
Dies (cartridge-specific): Sizing/decapping, Seating, Expander (for most handgun cartridges, usually not required for rifles), Crimp (optional depending on cartridge and weapon type, i.e. usually required for revolvers, recommended for autoloading rifles)
Shellholder (cartridge-specific but interchangeable among most single-stage presses - progressive presses use shell carriers, turntables, etc., specific to the brand & model of the press)
Case lube (not required for straight-wall cases with carbide dies) (Hornady One Shot spray lube is highly recommended)
Calipers (accurate to .001" or better; typical 6" spread is sufficient but you usually need at least 4")
Case trimmer or file-trim die (for rifle cartridges after sizing - usually not required for straight-wall handgun cases)
Case-mouth deburr/chamfer tool (for rifle cartridges after trimming - usually not required for straight-wall handgun cases)
Priming attachment for press, or separate priming tool (use correct size punch, Large or Small)
Powder scale (accurate to 0.1 grain - there are 7,000 grains in a pound)
Powder funnel (probably not required if you have a powder measure)
Primers (determined by published load data)
Powder (determined by published load data)
Bullets (determined by published load data)
Bullet-puller (to disassemble and salvage inevitable errors)
Things you want:
Loading block
Powder measure
Case tumbler & tumbling media
Tumbling media separator
Primer-pocket brush (Large/Small)
Chronograph
Does this list sound about right? Also, any little hints or personal tricks of your own? Remember, I am looking for the absolute barebones approach to reloading.
Thanks again for everything on here, you guys and girls rock!
That list is basically pretty good. some guys will want to add…or subtract. But basically ok. I would say a loading block is a must for rifle. With a single stage especially you are going to batch load. What are you going to do with the primed cases as you put powder in them? See what I mean. I would not load without cleaning cases. But some do. I wouldn’t. Makes resizing easier for one thing. Protects you dies for another. You don’t need a primer pocket brush or cleaner. 26 years and I’ve never cleaned a pocket. I load high volumes of ammo. In terms of a press. I would recommend a turret press. It is like a single stage. But you can keep all you dies set up all the time. Much easier. The Lee Classic turret is a cast press at a good price. It’s a good press for the money. For 223/556 you will need a case gauge. Getting the (shoulder of) the case resized properly is very important. It’s best not to guess. It can be dangerous, as well as frustrating. The case gage will do this for you. If you’re going to reload military or any crimped brass. You will have to have a reamer…the cheapest way. Or a swager. to get the crimp out of those primer pockets. I’m sure I’ll think of more. Check out Kempf’s gun shop online for the best prices on Lee products. They are a major Lee retailer. I own 2 Lee hand primers. I’ve had them for 25 years. I use them to prime my 223. Lee also has a hand held case trimmer that some guys swear by. Slow…but they sit and watch the news and trim and prime brass. I’m sure Ill think of some other things. good luck
I would most definitely clean/lube the cases.
Also, I know that you can reload a ton of ammo using a progressive reloader, but a very crude estimate of time needed to reload say, 50 or 100 .223 using handloading tools? I honestly have no idea what sort of per hour figure guys are getting.
Of course the time is dependent on soooo many variables. but are we talking 25 handloads per hour, or 50:confused:
I started reloading pistol ammo (and .30 carbine) on a Dillon progressive… My girlfriend’s father got me started on his press (my components), and then when she dumped me, I bought my own press.
Flipping through Dillon’s catalog makes it pretty obvious what kinds of things you’ll need.
I recommend this route to anybody interested in starting reloading. Pistol rounds are a lot easier to reload than rifle rounds, and once you get the hang of it (and catch the bug), then switching to rifle rounds is only a matter of buying the extra equipment (and adding the extra steps).
If nothing else, find somebody locally who will let watch (or even help) reload. Seeing how it’s done and getting a “feel” for it is important.
Bimmer- am I missing something? Did he say what kind of press he had. you keep talking progressive. My 650 doesn’t really provide any really big advantage over a turret press. I still have to check case length and trim if necessary. Or swage primer pockets maybe. Progressive is a bit misleading when you are talking rifle. It is nothing like the 50k/yr that I load of 45acp. And I re read OP. Still can’t see where progressive is mentioned. Maybe I missed it. **He did say barebones? I own and use Dillon. I load more rounds per year than most. but dillon is not barebones. If he does go dillon, a 550 is the best option. I am of the opinion that we should try to respond to someones question as written. Offer options. but certainly I wouldn’t say go this way or go that way only. We have no idea how many rounds he will load, or what other calibers. I learned on an old SparT turret press. Could I have learned on a Dillon. Yes. Do I think it makes any difference…maybe. I own a single stage, a turret, and a 650. And will probably own a 1050 some day soon. They are all used. And they all serve a purpose. None is a waste of money. Just one step toward the hobby.
Yeah, sorry if I went a bit off-topic, but “bare bones” doesn’t have to mean “excruciatingly primitive.”
The OP mentioned that he was planning to get a single stage, but I think a “progressive” is a lot easier than a single-stage, even for rifle rounds, even for beginners.
When I said “progressive,” I meant one like my Dillon 550. Isn’t “turret” and “progressive” the same thing? I figured that any press which advances the cartridge through several stages is “progressive.”
Anyway, once he add up all the extra stuff that he won’t need, I don’t think a progressive costs much more, anyway. I don’t see any downside to getting a progressive over a single-stage, and honestly, I can’t see any upside to getting a single stage (though never having had one, I don’t really know).
If you have a progressive, then I bet that you’re doing the prime, dump powder, and seat bullet stage with one stroke. Doing three things in one stroke seems like a big advantage to me…
Bimmer- much of what you say has some truth. But #1. you can buy a Lee Classic cast turret press ready to go with everything you need to reload(scales etc) at a modest pace(faster than single stage) for around $200. My 650 in 1985 with case feeder and set up for just one caliber was almost $900. So I don’t consider that bare bones, price wise. A progressive means different things to different people. Some think progressive should mean auto index/advance. Others think it is just multiple stations working at the same time. I like auto indexing. But I like the 550 for rifle reloading. And it is Dillons #1 selling press. On my 650, I actually have 5 stations doing something at the same time. This is just not very feasible with 223 loading. I can do around 100 rounds of 45acp in 10 minutes. So if primer tubes are loaded, I can knock out a lot of handgun ammo. The Lee Classic turret is auto indexing. But if I use it for 223, I deactivate the auto advance/indexing part. And like I said earlier. I don’t know many guys who have been reloading for a good while, that only own one press. So investing in a less expensive alternative now will not mean wasted money later. Many fellas that have joined the reloading ranks recently, will have their reloading equipment on ebay next year if prices for ammo comes down…or if components continue to rise. tampa- give us more info when you get ready to buy. We can discuss more about options based on your wants, and needs. Bob
Out of curiosity, I just checked, and a complete RL550B, including one caliber conversion kit, costs only $365… Regardless of whether we call it a turret or progressive, I wonder how much less than $365 a single-stage press.
Of course, the OP would still need a set of dies, a tumbler, a scale, a calipers, and a trimmer, but that’s about it for equipment (components and consumables would be more).
Anyway, my logic is this: if somebody’s going to spend $500-$600on reloading equipment, then he’s better off spending the extra $50-$100 to get a turret/progressive press…
I recently picked up everything(dillon 550b press, 2x dies(9 and .45), extra conversion kit, extra tool head, powder measure die, tool head stand, scale, brass tumbler, media separator, calipers, bullet puller, etc… ) plus 500 9mm and 500 .45 bullets, 2000 SP, 2000 LP, and 1 lb of powder and I spent 1200 bucks. This was everything, and I mean everything to get going. Now that 1200 includes tax so I guess maybe closer to 1100 before tax. Besides the press, you need everything else I bought so take out the 400 for the press and maybe another 100 that went to dillon specific things(tool head, tool head stand, powder measure die). If you dont want to include any components to get going you could also subtract about 200 that I spent on components. So 1100-500-200=400. So minus a press and initial component purchase you are looking at needing 400 to get the “accessories” that you have to have to reload. Now maybe buying online and what not you may be able to get that stuff a bit cheaper, but not much I dont think.
I dont see how you could get into it for much less than 500-550 if going with a single stage press or a lee turret press.
I did not buy the cheapest “accessories” because I figured those will stay with you no matter what press you get in the long run.
I can see a usefullness of having a single stage to do things like de-prime and size rifle cases prior to trimming, but for everything else a progressive, for me, is the way to go.
looking at shooting about 250 rounds of each cartridge per week.
Originally I thought that progressives would be significantly more expensive, but from what I’ve seen if you shoot alot it levels itself out after only a short time. However I have noticed that the accessories for progressives seem to be more, so whereas you spent less on the actual press, you can definitely rack up some change with all the extras.
I looked up on Dillons website and I’m liking what I see ( or at least, what makes sense to me:D ) in the Dillon RL 550B, as well as the Hornady Lock n’ Load AP press.
Rjacobs
Congratulations on the press! So far, how do you like your press? I’m more and more considering the buy once, cry once attitude on this and spend a little more extra money ( not saying that single stages are worse, just thinking about down the road when I plan to retire myself via recoil induced CTS:D )
Then you DEFINITELY want a progressive press… For the .40S&W, if nothing else.
Dillon sells nice accessories, and if you get a Dillon press, then you really do have to get some of it from them (toolheads, caliber conversion kits, powder bars, etc.).
Everything else (scale, calipers, trimmer, tumbler) can come from anywhere…
The turret/progressive may cost a bit more to get started (what, $100?), but unless your time is really worthless and you enjoy tedium, it’s money really really really well spent.
It’s like the difference between cutting your lawn with pushmower or using a lawn tractor. Loading 500 rounds a week is the equivalent of having a 10 acre lawn, and then you definitely want the lawn tractor.
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but AFAIK the Hornady presses are just Dillon items with red paint.
To Hornady’s credit, they’re willing to take somebody else’s good idea and run with it (I’m thinking of them licensing Federal’s “FliteControl” wad, too).
What sabre says is true. the old joke is “will I save money?” The answer. “Hell no, you’ll shoot twice as much.” And this is very true. And very enjoyable. BTW- the 550 is not considered a turret because like I said it does several operations at one time. A true turret still only does one case at a time. It just progresses from one station to another.
I’m not looking at in necessarily a money saving fashion, but rather as a method to offset the cost for increased range time.
Due to situations in my household, range time for me is extremely limited. I mean, maybe 2-3 hours a month. When this particular situation “passes away”, my free time will only be taken up (read shared with) by my trusty dog and whatever needs to be done daily. So I’m looking at a HUGE amount of time being freed up. So again, I’m not trying to save money, I’m simply using any method I can to justify hours spent at the range:D and also taken classes as well!
Bimmer
You mentioned Hornady presses being very similar, if not identical to Dillon presses. It seemed though like Hornady was slightly cheaper than Dillon, judging from a brief look over their websites, but I more than likely misjudged.
This is also looking to be a good past time, lock yourself up in the garage in peace and just have fun.
I’ll see where this goes, might give myself a New Years bonus this time:cool:
This will not be for any precision shooting what so ever, strictly for reloading bulk plinking ammo, so no
Right now I’m very happy to get 5 inch groups at 100 yards.
Running a lefty Stag Arms M4, 16 inch barrel, topped with an EOTech 552. As soon as I’m able to reload, and actually afford the ammo to frequent them, classes will follow!
Don’t laugh, but you should look into cast lead bullets for .40S&W. I’ve put thousands of them through my Glocks with nary a problem. They’re cheaper than jacketed bullets, they require less powder, and AFAIK they’re easier on the gun. Leading up the barrel has been a total non-issue.
Actually the accessories for each are going to be the same cost for any press you get. For both you need calipers, scale, brass tumbler, dies, bullet puller, etc… Any progressive press is going to require different shell plates for different calibers-the Hornady shell plates are about 30 bucks and the Dillon shell plates are about 30 bucks. The Hornady dies use bushings that are like 1/4 turn and they are removed while the Dillon uses a tool head that takes all 4 dies and they slide out and you slide the other tool head in with your next caliber. Hornady bushings are about 25 bucks and the Dillon tool heads are about 25 bucks.
As far as how I like the Dillon 550, I love it. I dont have anything to compare it to though as I haven’t ever used another press. It was easy to setup and is very easy to use. I had a few initial issues that I have worked out. I wasnt getting the shell plates tightened down quite enough and the primers were not seating quite deep enough, but I fixed that. The primer feed was not picking up primers consistently, but a little adjustment has it working 100%.
Its super easy to load on once you get cranking. It was fairly easy to setup also. Its pretty easy to change between one caliber and another, getting the powder measure swapped over is the hardest part and even its not that hard. The primer feeder is easy to swap out. Everything is easy to get to to clean also. There are tons of things that you can do to “modify” the dillon press’s also.
I recommend checking out the brianenos forums for more Dillon information.
After looking at both machines side by side I can so that is not the fact at all. While there may be similarities between a LNL AP and a Dillon 650 due to them both being progressive auto-indexing presses and both having 5 stations the rest is completely different.
I look at comparing any other press to Dillon in this way. Dillon is the standard by which all other presses are measured. An incredible number of pro shooters use Dillon only. some fellas have said to me, “that’s because they get them for free.” That may be so. But these shooters could get ANY press free for the promotional reward alone. Dillon has that unreal No BS warranty. And even though others have good warranties. It is because Dillon will replace or fix anything…your fault, their fault, nobodys fault. Period. No questions asked regardless of age or who owns it. The warranty goes with the press. Not the buyer. So “similar” maybe. As good. That’s for you and your pocketbook to determine. My choice for my go to press is Dillon. It’s a one time purchase.
**He did say barebones? I own and use Dillon. I load more rounds per year than most. but dillon is not barebones. If he does go dillon, a 550 is the best option. I am of the opinion that we should try to respond to someones question as written. Offer options. but certainly I wouldn’t say go this way or go that way only. We have no idea how many rounds he will load, or what other calibers. I learned on an old SparT turret press. Could I have learned on a Dillon. Yes. Do I think it makes any difference…maybe. I own a single stage, a turret, and a 650. And will probably own a 1050 some day soon. They are all used. And they all serve a purpose. None is a waste of money. Just one step toward the hobby.
tampa- give us more info when you get ready to buy. We can discuss more about options based on your wants, and needs. Bob
So far, how do you like your press? I’m more and more considering the buy once, cry once attitude on this and spend a little more extra money ( not saying that single stages are worse, just thinking about down the road when I plan to retire myself via recoil induced CTS:D )