I have a Noveske Recon with CTR Stock and had a TD QD Stubby mounted up front together with a Surefire XM951. Optic was a Aimpoint M4s.
In my quest to reduce weight on it I sold the M4, TD Stubby and Surefire.
I had plans to replace those Bolt-ons with Magpul AFG, Streamlight TLR-1 and a Aimpoint T1 to reduce the weight. However, now that my Noveske is “naked” and paying attention to the balance of the Rifle I’ve realized that it is front heavy even with no accessories mounted.
So, my question is: What’s ore important - good balance or lighter weight? I was thinking about replacing the CTR stock with the UBR stock but I would gain 1.5lbs.
What are your thoughts?
bad balance will make the fun feel heavier than it really is. Good balance makes the gun feel lighter than it really is.
The UBR is too much of a weight gain IMO to balance out a 16" Try the Magpul ACS stock. ACS stocks perfectly balance with govt profile barrels (im assuming noveske is govt profile, probably is). I have both stocks and have tested out balance with various combinations. UBR is good for balancing 20", HBAR/SS barrels, highly accessorized rails. My stepdad and my 16" BCM middys with 12" rails are balanced with ACS stocks. I put the UBR on my BCM middy once to mess around and it was too back heavy. Then I put the UBR on my Delton middy (HBAR) and it felt a lot better on that. ACS on my delton was front heavy still.
Experiment, see if you can weigh down the CTR with something around the house. Weight is important, but where the weight is (balance) and where it is felt is almost more important. You would be shifting the balance point rearward, which would hopefully put it behind your support hand.
Ill try to paint a picture. If you assume you fully support the rifle between your off hand and the strong shoulder only, the ideal situation would have all of the weight closest to the shoulder. This makes any movement by the offhand (to aim, etc) quicker to overcome the weight of the gun. Adding that the trigger hand does support and swing the muzzle helps, but it is simpler to only consider one hand.
It gets tricky when the gun become front heavy, as shifting the gun become more difficult. Adding weight blindly is also not wise, but if the weight can be added and not compromise any other aspect, go for it.
I prefer a lighter well balanced carbine. Weight and balance (like most things) are personal preference.
03designgroup | [b]AR15 Buttstock Considerations 
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I agree… bipods huge lights lazers and kitchen sinks are cool till your carrying around that tool day in and day out and running training drills with it… light weight is the way to go in my opinion… buts that my opinion and you know what they say about that
I had an ACS before but it was on my LMT M4 and then sold it to a buddy…never tried it on the Noveske. I’ll go visit him tonight and see how the ACS feels on my Rifle. Thanks for the replies so far! Another (slightly off-topic) question; If I would go for a UBR I would have to remove my Mil-spec extension and install magpul’s included buffer tube?
Not sure if the weight would make a difference, but you can also add some more weight in the storage tubes of the ACS if it is “almost” there for ya.
Yes, the UBR comes with it’s own special tube.
how hard is it to remove the staked castle nut?
I tried the ACS on my Rifle and it did balance better but still not the way I think it should. I probably go for a ACS or EMOD I guess I can always add a little weight into the storage tubes.
Not hard. Depending on how well it is staked, you can try tapping the staking back with a punch to make it easier.
What most people that talk about “balance” really mean is that they want to adjust the center of gravity. Every rifle or carbine “balances” somewhere, and that somewhere is the center of gravity. Adding or removing weight from one side of the center of balance will change that center of balance.
Some people seem to be on a mythological quest to get the center of gravity over the pistol grip. I don’t think that’s ever going to happen on an AR-pattern carbine.
Weight is weight, and a gun that weighs 10 lbs. is going to tire you out more quickly than one that weighs 5 lbs. Yes, you may be able to change the center of gravity such that it more evenly distributes the weight between both hands, but ultimately it’s all your body carrying that weight. No amount of shifting things around is going to change that, and adding a heavier stock to try to change the center of gravity is only going to make the fatigue issue worse.
Center of gravity has more to do with how the gun handles. Things like the ability to maintain the stock in the “pocket” and the firing grip while reloading, etc. Some of this comes down to a technique issue. I have watched countless shooters run into problems with their reloads because they don’t keep rearward pressure on the gun into their shoulder when changing magazines, effectively balancing the entire carbine in their strong hand while trying to jam a magazine into the magwell. They will complain of the gun being “front heavy”. Get them to keep up that pressure or, if needed, tuck the stock under their man-tit or into the arm pit and suddenly that issue goes away. No need to add $250 and 1.5 lbs to the gun which will affect the weight/fatigue issue in the long run.
In my opinion both are important.
Any chance you could put your hands on a few set up in different formats to allow you to choose better. Even with that I’d be that once you set yours up you’ll still have to tweak it some before you have it just how you want it.
For me weight and balance are both important. I put a good amount of gear on a carbine - sling, Aimpoint, buis, light, and a forward grip - but I’ve never been one to try to get my carbine as light as possible. For me the balance is very important. I have decided that I like a slightly rear weight bias. The rear weight bias makes it feel lighter to me and also helps my timing from target to target - and for me that’s more important than reducing the weight by a pound or so. Previously I always wanted a carbine to be front heavy for recoil reasons, but after testing out a new carbine I have decided I very much prefer the slight rear weight bias.
I like my bolt action to have the forward weight bias, but I tend to shoot it prone, sitting, and kneeling (supported).
I believe it’s possible that the answer to the balance vs weight question is related to a persons build - height, arm length, weight, muscle mass, etc… - and depending on a persons build and tactics either weight or balance could end up being more important to them.
To each their own.
I think the real answer is that you have to pick what fits you best.
I also prefer lighter rifles, but you’re just not going to get there with the Noveske Recon. Besides the added weight of the stainless barrel, the 11" SWS rail is one of the heavier rail systems out there. It is front heavy.
I have a love-hate relationship with my Recon - it is the most accurate rifle I own, but my other, lighter rifles are better suited for more ‘dynamic’ carbine usage (classes and competition). Knowing that I was never going to get the Recon as light as my other rifles, I went in the opposite direction. My Recon spends most of its time set up in a ‘designated marksman’ configuration, with a UBR stock, Leupold optic and a bipod.
Since picking up the MagPul AFG to T&E, I’ve put the Recon into a more competition oriented configuration and am currently experimenting with a Trijicon TA11 ACOG. I plan to run it in this configuration at the next 2/3 gun competition I can attend. Regardless, it is heavy.
I added the UBR to balance the weight, but the UBR lives in fear whenever I start thinking about lightening the rifle. I have a MagPul ACS that I’m considering replacing the UBR with.
In the end, not every rifle is going to be suited for every role.
Interesting thread with a lot of great input I especially like the post from rob_s.
The first AR I bought was a JP CTR-02 and I ordered with with a Magpul PRS stock. Then after I had it for a while, I was reading all of these threads about balance and I thought, “Wow, I really screwed up” even though it worked fine for me (I guess I just like a little heavier rifle for 3 Gun).
Then I saw Daniel Horner clean everyone’s clock and win every stage at BRM3G with his PRS stock on his JP AR. I guess I figure that it can’t be that much of a mistake.
A lot of it really is personal preference for the weapon, task, and training of the end user.
There is that, but there is also recognition of a weakness and a way to correct it. IE, using the PRS stock to improve one aspect of shooting, as well as recognizing the tradeoff of the improvement.
How a gun balances will affect more than just shooting.
Manipulations will be heavily affected as well.
Having a center of gravity between the mag-well and slip ring area works the best for me.
CDH - I know this is an old thread and found it doing a search.
I just got a Noveske Recce upper and put it on a lower I had put together. It also has a Magpul CTR on it.
Like you, I find it to be muzzle heavy. Excessively so.
What did you ever do about this? Try another stock? If so, what?
I read the link USMC03 provided and it has good info. and would like to think that the heavier UBR stock would help. However, I don’t want to dump $250 on the stock and it’s only slightly helpful. Ever try the UBR?
Scoby
I’d try the MagPul ACS, LMT SOPMOD or VLTOR EMOD stocks before the UBR. Besides being half the price, you can simply slip the CTR off the receiver extension and install any one of these. The UBR requires more intensive surgery, as it uses a proprietary receiver extension. My two cents.
I traded my Recon but also have a Light Reece Basic that has an ACS Stock on it and it balances it great.