Had an interesting situation arise near my ex-wife’s house a few days ago. A neighbor goes out to her garage to get in her car and drive to work. She sees a masked man in her car. She runs back inside and gets her husband, who goes into the garage and yells at the bad guy to leave. Bad guy points a pistol at him. Husband withdraws and calls 911, bad guy flees.
Range was <10m. Barriers would probably include windshield glass, the door post, and the door itself. Also, a bad guy with a mask and a handgun might also have body armor.
Thinking this one through, I realize that I would have pied that corner with my carry gun, a G17 loaded with 124-grain ammo from Doc’s list, and that the only visible target would have been the head/neck because everything else would have been behind stuff that would stop a handgun bullet. I also realized that a long gun makes a lot more sense.
Aside from an M-240 loaded with 4:1 link, what are your thoughts on long guns and loads for this? 870 and slugs? AR and barrier-blind loads?
I also assume the car would have been a total loss if shooting started.
I was watching something on Military Channel or History, can’t remember which, and in a training seminar they were firing a 556 SBR from the passenger seat through the winshield and putting rounds on target. They didn’t specify load that I can recall.
This is the exact same thing ammo companies are demo-ing for police departments all over the country. Every time the good quality handgun rounds and bonded rifle rounds come out on top (when glass is involved). Some 12 gauge slugs disintegrate going through windshields so stick with buckshot or good rifle ammo.
Brenneke 1 oz slugs and Federal (PB127 DPRS) Truball Deep Penetrator 1 oz slugs have no problem with car windows. The new Federal #1 buckshot, 15 pellet, “Flight Control” load (LE132-1B), also works acceptably through windshields.
A good personal defense rifle, like an AR15, would also work well–particularly when loaded with barrier blind ammo.
If I only had a handgun in that situation and the criminal threatened me with a firearm, I’d likely use my handgun to save my life–keep pressing the trigger with the sights aligned on the target until the life threatening situation is resolved…
Once she runs back in she should have locked the door behind her, called the cops and waited for the cops with her and her husband armed in the house ready to respond to an invasion. Pretty clean cut when you shoot someone who breaks into your house while on the phone with 911.
Pretty dumb to walk back outside into a situation where you know an individual is armed. “Never get into a gunfight if you can avoid it.”
Lastly, a bit of humor. “Near my Ex-wife’s house,” yeah… what were you at the time of this incident and do you have anyone who can vouch?
I don’t see the fail. She spotted the bad guy, husband tries to confront the guy to leave, then the gun gets pulled.
Frankly, at that point I would have likely shot my own car up rather badly.
Before someone starts playing internet lawyer woulda/coulda/shoulda with me, I’ve been working the street for 26 years, IMHO this case clearly satisfies both Garner and Graham, at least with the facts presented.
Something else that I feel works in your favor being outside the car shooting at a threat that’s inside is that you have instant feedback on where your rounds are going.
On anything but a paper range, it is sometimes very difficult to know where any misses are going. With both the windshield and car door, you instantly know where the round went and if it was where you wanted or not.
I would imagine it would be much less helpful to be the poor bastard trying to fight your way out of the car (not in this case of course, but another “what if” which started with the good guy in the vehicle).
Who confronts a masked intruder with a"shoo away"? If you are unprepared then call the police, weather I see your gun or not if you are close to mine I bringing one regardless. Knowing there is a masked man in you home is reason enough to bring the necessary tools, a bump in the night I may go unarmed depends but “there’s a masked man in the garage” is different.
Yeah, well, there is that… I don’t answer the front door on unexpected knocks without a gun.
I’m pretty sure that this is how it happened, not the husband going out there to face a known armed assailant.
I carry the 124-grain Ranger load, so this is good news.
We’re on good terms. I recently upgraded her from a creaky old S&W Model 10 to a G17–my kid lives with her and I want her to be ready for business if the flag flies. But I’m pro-rating the last child support check and repossessing the G17 the day he leaves for college. It will be my IDPA gun…
with ALL my front line carry and duty ammo, I make the assumption that I will be around vehicles and people in vehicles and if a shooting were to occur that the likelihood that glass or steel would be a barrier one way or the other.
That thought process is not something you need to be thinking of WHEN something happens… that should have been dealt with a long time prior.
I also agree with Doc and the training I’ve had… shoot until the threat is gone, what one round will not do 5-10 will have a better chance at.
Wow. I put you in Navy SEAL type brass balls territory arming and training your ex. I wouldn’t trust mine with a pointed stick, let alone a Glock and any sort of training. Now that’s scary!
What I want to know is why the husband ran out into the garage unarmed. If my wife told me there was a man in the backseat of her car in our garage, I would have run out with the biggest gun I own that’s close at hand. I certainly wouldn’t run out just to yell at him. Sounds like the man and his wife are both extremely lucky that they didn’t get shot.
That being said, as others have pointed out, a car door/windshield will protect you about as much as drywall. 9mm… .45… 12ga… Heck, I think most .22LR will punch through a car door. If I had to shoot someone inside of a car though, my first choice would be 12ga 1 1/8 oz or 1 1/4 oz slugs.
