About a year ago I made the decision to put down the Glock 19 I’d been running for 7 years and try the M&P instead. I read a lot about all of the accuracy issues with the M&P 9mm’s and was concerned; especially since the M&P 9FS was a daily carry weapon. The last thing I’d want to do is try to take a defensive shot and end up hitting an innocent because of a pistol with accuracy issues. Admittedly I haven’t put as many rounds through the M&P’s (I bought a pair from Grant) as I should have, but up until last Friday, I had still seen mixed results accuracy-wise and was not able to feel like I nailed it down to a gun issue or a shooter issue. Friday night I went to the local 25yd indoor range to put all that fear to bed once and for all and determine if I needed to spend the $200 on a custom-fitted barrel of if the pistol was good to go. Here are the results of that evening:
I ran the silhouette out to the 25 yd line and slow-fired (probably a round every 1-2 seconds, not extremely slow) a 10-shot group offhand. I started with the M&P and used the orange center as my point of aim. I had one flyer that opened the group to 8 inches, but without that flyer, the group was a solid 4 inches. I was pretty impressed!:eek:
Having done that, I wanted to establish a baseline for my shooting so I went and grabbed a Glock 17 out of the range’s rental case. Again, I ran the target out to 25 yds and fired a 10-shot group using the head as a point of aim this time:
The Glock group also had one flier and was basically exactly the same size as the M&P group. The one disturbing thing about the Glock group is how it is left of point of aim. Being a rental gun, the sights might have been drifted to the side, but I doubt it. When I shot Glocks, I always struggled with my groups being high and left @ 25 yds. I attribute this to the hump at the base of the grip. That hump and the heel of my hand do not agree with one another and causes the pistol to cant slightly in my hand (at least, that’s how it feels to me.) I’m always having to fight to keep the sights aligned with the Glock. The grip angle is the main reason I like the M&P over the Glock and why I switched.
In summary, I feel pretty encouraged about the accuracy exhibited by my M&P 9FS. I know that there are guys that can shoot a lot better than 4 inches @ 25 yds offhand, but there are also a lot of guys that cannot shoot that well. More importantly, the fact that the group sizes were consistent between the M&P and the Glock demonstrates to me that my M&P does not have accuracy issues (at least within my ability to drive it).
BTW: Both pistols are completely stock. Ammo used was 115gr S&B.
Interesting. I shoot both my G17 and G26 with groupings predominantly to the left.
Here’s a photo of a target I shot with my G26 when it was brand new. I was mainly just function testing it, ran 100 rounds of WWB through it. I got this.
POA was dead center of the orange for the first “cluster”. I then shifted down aiming at the numbers for subsequent groups.
I shoot both Glocks this way. I assumed its a problem with me.
I’ve always understood low and left to be an indicator of recoil anticipation with a pistol. I’ve seen a lot of people do it with a lot of different pistols. I’m not saying that’s what you were doing, however, I do find it interesting how your group gets progressively lower.
What I can’t figure about mine is, why it’s just left. Seems like if it were recoil anticipation or trigger snatching in my case, the group would have an elevation change as well.
First good shooting, but do you think that maybe having a specific aiming point (orange) for the M&P would give that particular pistol an advantage in shooting smaller groups? For me when shooting for groups a designated bull helps concentrate my fire better?
and also about your high left groups with glocks, do you think this could be remedied with a gen 4 or even a reduced gen 3?
Sorry about that, small edit added. It got lower because I began aiming at the numbers. It very well could be an issue with me, but even on my good days, when I have my A game happening, both Glocks print left. If I want dead center I have to place POA a bit to the right.
This makes sense to me and is how I feel when I shoot a Glock. To your other question, yes, I do think a reduced grip would fix the issue for me. I considered that route instead of switching to the M&P, but figured the M&P route was the easiest/most cost effective thing to try instead of paying hundreds to modify my Glock’s grip.
Shooting Glock’s “left” is very common for a right hand shooters. The key to shooting a Glock “straight” is to manipulate the trigger FLAT (as you pull it to the rear of the gun). Your trigger finger is actually pushing the trigger to the left as you pull to the rear. Concentrate on feeling the inside right edge of the trigger.
Generally yes, but his info was more or less designed around SA trigger pulls (like 1911’s). It really doesn’t apply with Glock’s IMHO.
I have run tests where I shoot Glock’s with the tip, middle and first joint of my trigger finger. Little to know difference. The think that has helped me shoot them straight is concentrating on trigger ending FLAT.
To help with feeling the right side of the trigger, you can take a small piece of skateboard tap and put some on the trigger. This will give you a tactile feel and you will know that you are applying pressure to that side.
It might be because the grip is “too small” for you.
A good test for you if you are right handed and shooting to the left:
Take your normal grip, focus on the front sight, dry fire, hold it like you are following through, then squeeze hard with your trigger finger. Chances are, you will see your front sight move to the left. You don’t notice this dry firing because you aren’t putting that extra force on the trigger fighting the recoil. I developed this problem myself after spending too much time dry firing doing dime drills.
The way I keep this from happening is to “choke up” on the grip and putting much more trigger finger on the trigger so the gun doesn’t twist.
I don’t notice this with a G30 or G21 because the grip is bigger and I don’t have the “slack” in my trigger finger like I do with a smaller grip.
Grant,
I was considering taking a pistol class from LAV this year. I’d appreciate your input on 1-day basic vs 2-day advanced and whether the performance above is at least on-par enough to not be “that guy” in the class.
Shoot the 10/10/10 drill and let me know your score. If you shoot 90 or above on it, take the advanced class (will still kick your ass, but you shouldn’t be “that guy”).
