The Army has selected 6.8mm as the new common round for both its Squad Automatic Weapon and M4 replacement.
A Prototype Opportunity Notice posted on the government website fbo.gov is going to give three companies the chance to submit their versions of the new individual service rifle, the Next Generation Squad Weapon, chambered in 6.8mm, the same round that developers are using for the Next Generation Squad Automatic Rifle program.
Until recently, officials would only say that developers were being encouraged to look at requirements in the intermediate caliber range, somewhere between the existing 5.56mm and 7.62mm rounds common to individual, sniper and machine guns in the Army’s inventory.
Until recently, the goal was to first develop the NGSAR and then allow its advancements to inform the development of the M4 replacement, the NGSW-Rifle.
Didn’t they say not too long ago (less than a year ago) that 7.62 would be their new round to replace their M4’s and SAWS?
I guess that project didn’t work out. Take the statements and rumors with a grain of salt.
They already have it right. You aren’t going to get significantly better terminal performance with the 6.8 compared to the 5.56 using ball rounds. Especially when compared to the 77 gr MK 262. It’s not worth the cost for such a marginal increase.
Going to be interesting to see what comes out of it as they did not specify a cartridge, or even a performance envelope. Just they had to use the provide projectiles.
Seems to me like they are free from M-16/AR-15 constraints, so could go a bit longer.
Yet the various announcements state the expectation is same capacity/weight in terms of battle load. Only way to do that is caseless or similar breakthru.
Way I read this it’s just a contract to build prototypes of MGs and carbines sharing the same ammo. I hope something comes out of it that sticks!
Since the 1960s, the U.S. Army has used the 5.56-millimeter round. The number refers to the diameter of the bullet, which also corresponds to .22 inches. Unlike civilian .22 rounds however the 5.56 round is heavier, longer, and travels at greater velocity, transferring much more energy to the target and causing much more serious wounds
All the articles are pretty sketchy… They start with “the Army has selected a new round…”. They have not in those solicitations anyway.
They provided projectiles, so it would have been accurate to say “the Army appears to be heading to a new caliber”. It appears tahe exact cartridge has not been selected, nor is anything specified in the gov solicitations.
The self interest side of me hopes it’s something like 6.8spc so civvys would benefit. But I hope for the Army’s sake it’s a breakthrough beyond the AR/M-16 bound cartridges. A true intermediate not restricted by 40+ year old magwell length.
Aqnd if you look at the performance objectives I don’t see how they’re going to do it without something like caseless.
Never trust mainstream media to get it right. All anyone can say with certainty is that it APPEARS that the army has chosen 6.8mm as the diameter of the projectile.
What the army is hoping to achieve is some kind of polymer cased telescoped ammo. The technology already exists in cannon sized caliber guns, its just needs to be adapted to small arms. Caseless has too many thermodynamic problems for it to be a thing in terms of today and near future technology so that wont be a thing.
“The U.S. Army’s chief of staff said Monday that its 6.8mm… “It will fire at speeds that far exceed the velocity of bullets today, and it will penetrate any existing or known … body armor that’s out there,” Gen. Mark Milley”
Gotta love it… “Fire at speeds that far exceed the velocity of bullets today”.
Yet it’s 6.8mm, so 90-130 grains is about as light as you can go and still have decent downrange perf. And has to beat armor.
Sounds like 270 performance, which would be great ballistically.
But also from the PR statements, both the ammo and carbine/mg have to have same weight or less for the same combat load out.
So the new cartridge approach (case telescoped or whatever) has a pretty big order to fill.
And then you get to talk about recoil impulse, which is probably going to be double current platforms, at least for the carbines. So add that to the list of magic technology breakthroughs that will be needed.
It will be interesting to see how close the manufacturers can get do this performance profile, and I truly hope there are some technology breakthroughs. But this feels like more jetpack and hover car experiments than a procurement that will lead to actual usage in our lifetime.
That is a pretty stupid statement right there, so faster than a .22-250? And since there is now body armor that will stop .50 cal that’s going to be a heck of a round.
I agree with you pinzgauer. It sounds like 270 like performance, but to me it also seems like something isn’t adding up. 270 with a 90 grain out of a 15" is going maybe 3100fps, that doesn’t seem like “far exceed” to me. Can’t get around physics, recoil would have to come into play with the speeds they are portraying given the bullet weights of a 6.8. It will be interesting, hopefully it isn’t vaporware.
On the round, Can you direct inject fuel behind a bullet and get enough energy (and pressure) to get a bullet moving fast enough? Cars engines have made a lot or progress on direct injection. I thought a few years ago that the new Paladin was looking at direct injection? Unless you are looking at electrical charge or liquid propellant, I don’t see what else would fundamentally change the brass-case/primer/gunpowder model.
Color me skeptical. With existing cartridges, 6.8mm weighs more, has less capacity per In3 of box magazine, and has more recoil, if only slightly. With SPC, in most (all?) commercial loads that currently exist, we get similar velocity with a lower BC, or similar BC with less velocity compared to 5.56. Perhaps the tech thats been talked about for decades without fruition will solve some of this.
I’ll be interested to see @Constructor continue to post in this thread. I genuinely want to be proven wrong, but I’m happy with M855a1 at this time.
Plates rated to stop .50BMG worn by members of Infantry? No. For Helicopter pilots yes but ESAPI is the extent for infantry.
As for the projectile the Military has a design and material composition in mind, it will be up to the competitors to take that info and create a cartridge to deliver the desired penetration range, with reliable feeding from both proprietary magazines and belt links for both the individual rifle and the squad automatics. From there they can develop the weapons without the bs of having to shoehorn into the M4 or the SAW.
The military will be providing the projectile, proposal calls for delivery for 50 NGAR and 50 NGR and 850,000 rounds of ammo with mags, drums, links whatever is needed. So basically “here’s a bunch of bullets, go develop a cartridge that can defeat any armor vest at X00 meters and build a Auto Rifle and Rifle to shoot it”. I have seen a drawing of what is supposed to be the XM1168 projo that looks like a scaled up M855A1 but I am not sure if it is legit. But it does kind of make sense that it will be based on the 855A1 design.
SSA developed a 97gr AP bullet in a 6.8spc early in 2008 that will defeat L IV armor at 100 yds. Some of the remarks made sound like BS though unless they stuff that same 97gr in a 277 USA(Based on Murrays 7mmUIAC) Roughly 43gr powder capacity and would propel that 97gr to around 3100 out of a 16" barrel. That cartridge would need an OAL of 2.6" meaning a complete new rifle and mags.
