Lately the thread here http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39159 has trended towards a lot of guys with “training rigs” that include armor. Rather than muck that thread up with my question I thought I’d start a new thread.
What is the perception of training wherein it requires armor? I would prefer to hear specific examples rather than generics, theory, “some…” etc. What, specifically, led you to pursue armor as part of your training equipment?
As an LEO I have been required to train in my body armor at times…train like you fight and all that. All of my rifle mags were kept on my heavy armor, so I had to wear it when we did rifle work.
But I’ll never understand wearing armor in training if “life” doesn’t require it. It’s heavy, hot and cumbersome.
I wondered about that while reading through the same thread, but didn’t want to be “that” new guy by asking. Look forward to seeing the reasoning behind everyone’s decisions.
I only use armor in classes that require it such as CQB/HD classes. I dont see any reason to use armor unless the instructor or class dictates it.
In my case I would say it is used two or three time a year.
in general, it seems prudent to have some protection when training with pistols and rifles, even in a controlled environment. accidents happen.
personally - since i design pouches and equipment, i need to test them on rigs to ensure that they work as intended (access, mobility and interference is different when wearing an armoured rig vs. ‘slick’). while i may not ever have the personal need to wear armour in harm’s way since i’m a civvie, a lot of the folks who buy the products i design do, so that’s how the products need to be tested.
Sworn LEO, I wear mine always in a class, during qualification and usually just training in my own. It’s mandatory when we qualify for good reason. A few years ago one of our FI in another part of the state took a 223richochet to the leg. Luckily nothing but meat but could have been tragic.
When I train on my own I normally wear my heavy armor because I usually have it on when I deploy my M4.
I guess maybe it would be helpful to delineate some things here. So let’s add to the replies whether you are mil or civilian, and if civilian LE or non.
The majority of the classes I’m taking this year dictate armor. I find that incorporating it into my training in the classes that don’t require armor allow me to become acclimated to moving and shooting with the restrictions that armor creates.
As MM pointed out, it’s also the added safety in a class where others are going to be moving past me with firearms. This isn’t to say I wear a helmet in every class, as I don’t unless it’s a class requiring night vision or a shoot house class where the instructors require the use of helmets.
Class: Civilian, non-LE
I already had a IIIA soft vest in case I ever felt the need to don it, for any reason. Thought of it being a good thing to have for someone who carries a gun. Using it doesn’t change anything relating to weapons manipulation.
When I started upping my level of studies on use of the carbine, a lot of that training, for my uses, was inside shoot houses, and almost every instructor required armor. Shoot houses can have some hard surfaces that will redirect shrapnel, bullets, etc. Also the confines are tighter, and your fellow shooters may be in a separate part of the structure. I decided it was time to buy some, and again if I ever felt the need to throw it on, while not training, I would have it available.
The overriding specific reason to pursue armor = higher level, very specific types of classes & their requirements.
In almost every class that involved your typical gun range, I was pretty “slick”. Eagle chest rig since 2001 for four rifle mags, Eagle FB kydex lined pistol mag pouches on my belt, and a 6004/Sidearmor/RCS holster.
My situation is similar to SHIVAN and Titleist. I’m a civilian that runs armor in some classes.
I recently set up a plate carrier as my ‘training’ rig. I’ve progressed in my training to the point that there are more team movement drills during the class. More advanced classes I am interested in taking will require plates, or at least give me more peace of mind given the amount of team drills.
LEO using soft armor.
I wear it in classes or training for several reasons.
1) I wear it on duty, so while in training or classes I try and keep everything as if I were working.
2) Rifle mags are on the vest carrier so when using the rifle I need to have it on to reload.
3) Safety. As a LEO firearms instructor I have seen some crazy things happen on the range.
I wear concealable soft body armor in training where it’s required, where I want an added safety margin (shoot houses, recruit training, etc), or where I want to check gear combos. (Plates, occasionally.) I train without it as well, as the majority of life is spent outside the job and without armor, with basic CCW gear.
I’ve never been averse to armor, having long ago experienced the difference between a quality, well-fit vest and otherwise.
Context: LE, open enrollment stuff.
Non-Mil, Non-LEO…
Sometimes I wear armor in class, sometimes not. When I wear armor, I wear a concealable vest. I learned from role playing OPFOR, that getting the most coverage is important to me, although at a cost of not having the protection of plates. I guess it’s a personal preference. I would like to think it’s not a product of the old armor vs. no armor, or concealable vs. non-concealed debates… cans of worms in themselves…
I think that if a person considers that there might be a time in the future when you will might need to wear one(another can o’ worms), you have to get used to working in it and the heat and restrictions that come with it. Unfortnently, I do not have military experience to base weapons training or gear(and armor) training on. However, I am interested in it, and learning the right ways to work with it. Just like getting good firearms training itself, until you get out there and do it, you really don’t know what you can and can’t do. Heaven forbid that any of us get wrapped up in another Katrina like situation. Anyone want to guess how many unused vests were hanging in closets durring that time? I would venture a guess of less than fingers on the your hand. How many people, that stayed in New Orleans, wished they had one, even thought it was hotter and more muggy than the best cat house on Tchoupitoulas Street? I would guess quite a few…
Having JIC(Just In Case) armor is one thing, getting out and working in it…something completly different. I hope that I never have to wear this stuff full time. However, I know that if I do have to, I have already experienced what it’s like to wear and work in armor, and have already worked out most of the fleas with how all the gear interacts with me and my surroundings…
Cheers,
gb
I am LE. Whether I wear my armor or not depends upon my training goals. When I am at a Dept. training function I am required to wear my soft armor. I wear my PIG carrier with plates for tactical training. However when I go to schools if it is not required, I don’t wear it. I don’t want the burden of the armour to detract from my learning experience, but when I come home I wear the armour to practice the drills in a more realistic fashion.
With that said, if I am going to the range to work on trigger control or other basics, but it is almost always a trigger control issue, I don’t wear armour. But if the training is geared toward more tactical type drills I wear it.
CIV and I bought my rig to attend some of the classes that requried armor. My rig is set up for those classes and train on my own with it on maybe half the time.
LE.
For dept. related stuff we are not required to wear body armor.
When I shoot pistol classes outside of my dept. I do not wear armor.
When I shoot rifle I wear a PC with plates (most of the time).
When I work out at home I have a training rig with plates I used for general workout stuff.
Many depts. require training in your armor, accidents do happen - as stated previously - so it is your choice.
Former military, current instructor for military, LE, & open enrollment.
I continue to wear plates & backers to MOST carbine training and while instructing because, once the armor is off (same as gloves, restrictive/protective clothing of all types), EVERYthing gets easier, faster, more sure because I’m not fighting what I’m wearing. Think of it sorta like doing PT in a weight vest, only I didn’t feel like buying a separate weight vest.
My chest rig mimics my armor setup, so even when I go without my PC, all that’s missing is weight and bulk, not item placement. Belt remains the same with either PC or chest rig, and that approximates my preferred EDC configuration.
Also, done simply to remain accustomed to wearing armor, for those times I’m required to wear it for the occasional in-theater overseas jaunt.
Lastly, and most importantly…I want something in between Momma Santoro’s darling eldest child and some of the loose nuts behind guns, out there.
The class required it (HD and CQB based classes).
Besides that, it is always nice to have 7.62 (multi-hit plates) and soft armorer around for “just in case” events. 
C4
I am a LEO. Policy dictates I wear soft armor to quals and agency sponsored training. I have plates (issued and personally procured.)
If taking a pistol class, I would wear the soft armor. If carbine work was in the mix, I would don the plates.
Because in most situations that warrant pulling out the AR, I’d like to have armor as well (along with a little more ammo and medical equipment).
Civi:
I purchased my PC for an upcoming class that requires it (HD, tac ops). I wear it while training obviously in order to get comfortable and work through the constraints a PC brings. Now that I own a PC I will always use it during training with others for the simple fact I really don’t trust anyone and accidents DO happen know matter how good you are. As the skill level increases the more dangerous it all becomes. I have soft armor from when I did EP and use it only on the pistol action pits. Anytime there are rifles at play the PC is on and the range I train at some of the shooting pits are in front of the 200/300 yrd range berm and if a round hits the ground it could very easily jump the berm.